Rough start and Overheating on long hills?

[dewloft]

Hello there. I just purchased a 1984 SR5 4WD Automatic 1.5 liter Tercel and am super excited about it. 136k for 1600

While driving it to its new home in South Lake Tahoe it overheated twice on the long grades. Wondering if this is normal for these cars?
It is also taking me 8 or so try's to get it started for the first start of the day. Wondering if that could have something to do with needing a stronger anti freeze coolant? [img]/Users/elizabethmacphail/Desktop/car%20photo.jpg[/img]

[Petros]

welcome to the forum!

This is not normal for these cars, if the cooling system is operating properly it should not overheat ever even going up long steep grades at high speed in 105 deg F weather (which is no where near what your temps there are this time of year).

the cooling system is straight forward and easy to veryify it is working properly: I would first replace the thermostat, get a good one with a warranty, NAPA "gold" or similar quality brands, including the factory/dealer t-state (cost should be around $16-20, cheap ones are like $7.99, many of which are junk right out of the box). These should be replaced about every two years, along with a flush and new anti-freeze. Sometimes as thermostats age they still function but do not open all the way, so cause overheat on hills.

The next thing to check is the lower hose does not collapse when you rev the engine. when a radiator hose gets old it starts to break down and the suction from the pump will cause it close and restrict coolant flow.

The age and condition of the radiator needs to be checked if you still are overheating on hills, if you have deposit build up or leaks you need to replace it or have it rebuilt (replacement is not too costly if you shop around, about $120 or so). Before you replace it however you might have a radiator shop test it with a heat gun to see if it cools uniformly, that is the best way to verify if it is working.

A bad water pump will not cause this btw, it can leak and loose coolant, but you can usually see that by inspecting it while it is running. If it does not leak the water pump is probably good, so do not waste any time replacing it.

And lastly, the worst thing you may have is a damage head gasket. It will run okay unitl it uses up enouh coolant to not properly cool, and than overheat. Symptoms are white "smoke" (steam) on start up out the exhaust, oily deposits in the coolant/radiator, chocolate milk-like substance in the motor oil (coolant contamination). Often with a leaking head gasket it might run okay, but be using coolant so you have to add it every few days. You can not always tell by taking a compression test unless it is really bad, but at that point it will be running on 3 cylinders, hard starts, etc. Another check is to pull the front spark plug and look inside the cylinder with a strong flash light, if it looks wet, or "clean" (compared to the others) likely it has been "steam cleaned" by the leak.

If that is the case the only solution is to replace the head gasket. It is a big job but it is not as difficult as most modern cars. Use the procedure I outlined in the repair guilds section here: https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6059

If you get all the tools and parts you need ahead of time it can be done in an afternoon.

The head gaskets on these cars are sensitive to damage if the engine is overheated, so even if you find it was the thermostat, or the radiator, watch your coolant level and temp gauge carefully for several weeks to verify it was not compromised.

Good luck

[Petros]

BTW, the previous owner likely had this problem too, and rather than fix it sold the car to you. rather unethical if he did not disclose it, because a shop would change $500 or more to replace the head gasket. Get some tools and learn how to work on it yourself (you can do it in one day with less than $100 worth of parts and tools). It will save you lots of money and you will gain the confidence to do all your maintenance yourself and keep it running. It is a 30 year old car after all, and will need regular maintenance as well as major repairs.

[dlb]

welcome, dewloft. can you be more specific about what you mean when you say the engine overheated twice? how high up on the gauge did the needle go? if it only went 2/3 or even 3/4 up while you were climbing a mountain, i would say that is normal depending on how you were driving (driving as fast as possible up steep hills in an underpowered car can cause it to run hot).

bearing that in mind, my advice is this: check your coolant level when the engine is cold. make sure the rad is full and the overflow reservoir is filled to the 'full' line. drive around like you normally would and keep an eye on the temp gauge all the time, and check the coolant level of the overflow reservoir every morning before you drive anywhere. if the temp gauge does not go above 1/2 unless idling in heavy traffic, your cooling system is ok. if the coolant in the overflow is consistently at the 'full' line when cold, your head gasket is likely ok.

how do you start the car? if you step on the gas pedal twice, leave it up, and turn the key, the car should start pretty easily. this is the normal procedure to start a carbureted car. sometimes if it's cold you might need to do this twice but 8 times is way too much.

are you new to cars or working on them yourself? if so, i recommend getting some tools and diving in. as petros pointed out above, these are old cars and need lots of maintenance and repairs to keep them healthy. unless you are willing to throw thousands of dollars at the car, it is best to learn to do as much of the work yourself as you can.

[Gottolovem]

Welcome dewloft it's nice to see another new local forum member.
I just had to repair my overheating auto with almost identical miles it was the head gasket.
I can't really give any better advice than Petros and dlb has already given.
If you feel like your in to deep and need help to work out your overheating trouble let me know I live in reno.
Lots of the people on this forum have far superior knowledge on these cars than local shops that will just take your money.

[keith]

Once again, the simplest, lowest cost and most likely to succeed is completely overlooked for much more expensive and less likely to work solutions.

The radiator cap.

[dewloft]

Thank you guys so much! This really is a great forum. I am quite new to working on cars and dove in yesterday. I replaced the thermostat and took for a nice hard drive. No overheating issue at all! It was running like a champion. I also replaced an air filter, put in new coolant and a new radiator cap.

Unfortunately when I awoke this morning I found that it is not starting at all. I hooked it up to my girlfriends truck and it turns over great, but it isn't starting? I have checked where I worked yesterday, and all seems to fine in that I caused no collateral damage changing the thermostat. It has a brand new battery, so it obviously isn't getting the charge it needs. But as far as not starting while being jumped I am confused.
Going to take advice and check the head gaskets. And figure out where the fuel line is to check the filter.

I really want this car to work. I can feel that it has so much potential. I will have to post a photo because to the eye it looks to be in great condition under the hood as well.

Thank you,
Dewey

[Gottolovem]

The head gasket likely has nothing to do with it not starting if it ran well and didn't overheat yesterday.
Pour a tea spoon of gas in the carburetor see if that has any effect.
if not check the plugs the wires and distributor timing.
Good luck

[dewloft]

Thank you gottalovm! You have a place in Tahoe anytime. My girlfriend and I have a spare from with your name on it.

[dewloft]

Okay so the teaspoon of gas made it start right up but then it immediately dies. I am assuming it just isn't getting any fuel.

[dlb]

dewloft, this may sound dumb but do you have the trans in P? i'm not used to automatics so i've had some no start situations where that was it. the fact the car drove great yesterday after you worked on it makes the no start now seem odd.

when you have a no start situation it's best to describe it fully. when you turn the key without jumping cables from another vehicle, does nothing happen, does it just click, do the lights go dim, does it crank, does it crank and fire but not start, etc? all those details will make it easier for us to point you in different directions.

if it starts and dies with the teaspoon of gas, replace the fuel filter and see if that helps. it's small and plastic, on the driver side below the brake master cylinder. make sure to install the new one with the hoses oriented correctly. if that doesn't help, it's likely the fuel pump, which is also pretty easy to replace.

[Gottolovem]

If the transmission is anywhere other than park the starter does nothing.(there is a safety relay to prevent the car from starting in gear).actually it will start in neutral to.
If the teaspoonful of gas worked you found the problem as dlb said fuel filter or fuel pump or the gas gauge is broken and you're out of gas.

[Gottolovem]

Thank you gottalovm! You have a place in Tahoe anytime. My girlfriend and I have a spare from with your name on it.

Cool maybe someday
Look me up if your missing any parts I tend to Hord them.

[Petros]

sounds like it is not getting fuel; as stated, replace filter (they are cheap, it is located on the left fender under the brake master cylinder), check fuel lines for air leaks by running a fuel line into a gas can and see if it starts and runs from the fuel in the can. Any cracks in the fuel line up stream of the fuel pump will suck air and you would not necessary see a leak. This happens on cars that have sat for years in a dry climate, the fuel lines dry out and crack. Vacuum lines can do this too. If fuel lines check out likely it is the fuel pump, not to costly and easy to change. Test it by running the out let line into a can and crank the engine. If you have low pressure gage you can test it with that, but if it does not pump fuel into a can than it is not working (you might do the test by sucking fuel from a fuel can rather than the tank since it would eliminated the possibility of a blocked or cracked fuel line).

Always diagnose the problem before you replace parts. the fuel pumps are very reliable and usually hold up well for many thousands of miles, but the do occasionally go out. I have found however that the fuel lines will leak more often than the fuel pumps fail.

Good luck

[dewloft]

Thanks guys. I just replaced the fuel filter, and that was most definitely the problem. After putting some gas in the carb and jumping it, it ran great. I couldn't even blow air through the old one, can't believe it even started before. Now I am going to have to go back to yesterdays project and fix my leaking thermostat job which I was so proud of. I am a amateur that's for sure. It is super hard to get that thermostat to stay in position while putting it in. Thanks again.
Oh and is there a easy way to diagnose a bad alternator except for the fact that it isn't keeping the battery charged?