T4 rear bearing diagnosis

[TominMO]

Today I had the brake drums off for painting. While waiting to do the second coat, I decided to pull on the lug nuts on each side to see if I could detect any play going on internally. On the pass. side I got about 2mm of play when pulling, but on the driver side none at all. Does this indicate that on the pass. side my bearings might be more worn/the seal has failed? Or could it just be a difference in how well/not well the inner retainer was installed?

[marlinh]

I don't think there is a problem with your bearings. There is usually some axial play there, it would be up and down that would concern me. If the axle isn't leaking it is probably fine. If the seal has failed it would have no effect on the play.

[TominMO]

OK, thanks. Just speculating this might give us some insight into what's going on inside; but no.

[Ace]

I failed the rear bearings on my 1983 Tercel because I used to back my car too far into the water to help a friend launch their boat. The rear bearings got noisy and then starting leaking oil behind the wheels during a trip. I replaced the entire rear axle because it was the expedient thing to do at the time and found a suitable replacement at a pick-n-pull.

The end play may indicate some bearing wear but I wouldn't be too concerned unless it gets noisy and leaks.

[Petros]

2mm sounds like a lot of play, I do not think there is that much room btween the retainer and the bearing, that means it is comming from the bearing itself.

The real test of wear is to feel the axle rotated in your hands. with the wheel and drum off, push down on the axle end and rotate it. It should rotate smoothly without any roughness or "crunching". there will be a rhythmic gear feedback from the ring and pinion, but it is not that, it is irregular roughness when the axle is turned that you can feel in your hands. I will also make a whirling, roaring or grinding noise as you drive it.

When the bearing gets very worn and sloppy (usually very noisy too), it will wipe out the seal. but I have found that if the seal is still soft, and it was not leaking, it can be left in place and reused without issues. If it is brittle and cracked, it should be replaced even if not leaking.

[TominMO]

Thanks Petros, I will try this test tmw.

[TominMO]

Another question about removing the rear axles: why can't you re-use the nuts that hold the axle in (backing plate nuts)? The Chilton book calls these non-reusable, along with the two gaskets. I can see it for the gaskets, you would want to use new ones, but the nuts? You could stick lock washers and/or Loc-Tite (blue) on 'em and be fine, I would think. Or maybe replace them with new (stainless steel?) nylock nuts if you wanted to.

[Petros]

that is the standard Factory Service manual procedure, to replace all lock nuts. they have something else to charge the customer, and they do not want to risk a used locking nut come loose. The object of the dealers repair process is to put it back in the condition it was in when it left the factory. I always reuse them, I even reuse gaskets if they are not damage.

I am not so picky, I have always always reused the lock nuts in all locations without issue. If the locknuts look beat up I will add lock-tite. It is friction that hold most nuts and bolts in place anyway, lock nuts just add more friction. I suspect old used nuts and bolts have more corrosion on them, so they likely hold better. Replace them if you want, but I see no reason to do so, add lock tite if you are concerned, and use a torque wrench, and it will be as good as factory new. I only use a torque wrench on critical applications, (head gasket, flywheel, clutch, intake manifold), but rarely ever use it on chassis applications, and I have done a lot of wheel bearing and seal replacement, and have just gone by feel (tight, very tight, or really tight), and have never had an issue (of course, I have been doing this sort of thing for 40 years). Use the torque wrench a lot when you are new to any repair, until you have a better feel for which are critical, which are not, and you know what a 30 ft-lb tight nut feels like with a wrench.

[TominMO]

Thanks Petros, I suspected that was the case--i.e., not necessary.

[keith]

I have always reused them as well, never had a problem. I too think that any play you can measure is too much. I would pull the axle, which is pretty easy to do on this car, and feel the bearing itself. I think you will find its time for new ones.

It is possible that the bearing has been replaced but the retainer was not pressed all the way into place, that would cause lateral play in the bearing and shorten its life as well.

[TominMO]

I was thinking along these same lines, keith. Went out today and did what Petros suggested, turned the axles while pushing down. Both sides were nice and smooth. Maybe my axles are OK after all. Lots of road noise, which I have difficulty believing is the tires (used Kumho Solus KR21s, with decent tread). But I didn't notice it until after I changed to these tires, so I should put the original tires back on (Escort 14" steelies w/195/70x14 tires). I should check for noise with those tires and compare.

[dlb]

these cars are guilty of a LOT of road noise, even with brand new wheel bearings. remember their vintage and the fact that they were one of the lowest levels of economy cars toyota made at the time. my corolla all trac is slightly better, but not by much. only the few honda civics we have had were worse.

[TominMO]

I am going to try putting some filler material under the rear pass. seat, and in the walls between the interior plastic and the metal body. I'll bet that will help a lot.

[Petros]

more dense insulation under the carpet/floor mats, and the wheel wells will help the most. the more dense the insulation the more noise it will stop.

[TominMO]

Yeah, I did this to my Festiva, which used to be noisy and is now pretty quiet. It occurred to me that the cavity bwtween the outer skin and the inner plastic is basically a drum; same with the space under the rear seat. No carpet or insulation there at all, at least in mine.