Front Struts question

[keith]

The top mount doesn't come with a new spring seat. The purpose of those flats is to help you tighten the top nut. Without something to stop the rod from turning, its tough to get the nut tight. You could try to hold the rod with a pair of channel locks, but any marring of the rod where it may go into the strut will ruin the strut. Above that point is OK.

You can use an impact wrench to tighten the nut. It will get tight that way but it is easy to over do it. I would say no more than 5 or 6 hits with a 3/8 drive impact, less with a 1/2" drive. 2 or 3 would probably do. If you can't loosen it afterward, it's tight enough.

[Petros]

I do not recall the upper spring seat having a flat in the hole, are you sure you wore a flat out? Or did it perhaps come this way?

[dstan]

keith:
thanks for the ideas.

petros
no, i'm not sure of that. but if there were no flats on the upper seat, then how did it keep the rod from spinning? i suppose it could simply have been the snugness of fit. and it looked suspicious. i should upload a pic.

incidentally, the new monroe strut rods get much fatter at the flats, so some wrench or something appears necessary, and feasible, for torquing the rod while tightening the nut down.

will report back after i procure the mounts.

oh, and if it's any consequence, i have an '83 4wd.

thanks again for the info and suggestions.

[dstan]

also, was there ever any resolution on rear springs? i am aware of the pedders springs. the model number is 7489 or something like that. but what about the moog cc211. some websites suggest that this is the rear spring for the 83 tercel. and its dimensions are different from the springs on rock auto, which are, according to rock auto, for the non-wagon models. incidentally, the moog cc211 springs appear to be the same dimensions as the front springs for the t4wd. but they are called cargo springs, and they are specifically for the rears, according to the websites at which they can be ordered.

[rer233]

non- wagons have rear struts (as do fwd wagons so the rear springs should be different from our 4wd's.

[ARCHINSTL]

The rear springs ARE different; the 2WD jobbies are still available from various sources but the 4WD are available from no one but Pedders in OZ only.
Member Typrus (and others ?) installed Pedders rears a few years ago. Do a Search using his name.
Tom M.

[dstan]

OK, so here's an update, on what happened with the strut spring seat problem I encountered, along with some little reflections and learning experiences intended for anyone thinking about doing the struts.

1. I did in fact shear off a little flat / notch thing on the upper spring seat on my front right strut assembly. I was able to confirm this when I got the left front strut assembly off of the car. But it's not that important. I think it was all of my failed attempts to loosen the rod nut that stripped the seat. Lesson: make sure you have a long enough and fat enough bar to stick through the upper spring seat so that you will not screw anything up. Also, if you turn rotate the spring relative to the spring seat while the spring is uncompressed, you will very likely cut the rubber gasket thing that sits between the spring and the upper spring seat. So, do not, as was recommended to me by a Kragen rep, try to loosen the rod nut with the strut in the car, or with the spring uncompressed. The bottom spring seat has a stronger hold on the spring than does the top spring seat, so it will win, if that makes any sense...

2. The front springs I ordered from rock auto did not fit. They were taller, which isn't always the end of the world, so I tried to put them on anyway (note: they were not just taller because the old springs are old, I think -- there are more turns in the coil, more material). Anywho, when I put them on, though, the top of the spring was a little too large for the upper spring seat. So I just put the old spring back on. I don't think a new spring is anywhere near as important as a new strut cartridge. I'm quite sure that I ordered the correct one, at least according to the rock auto description. It was a raybestos spring. Too lazy to find the part number right now. Anywho, back to rock auto it will go.

3. I remember somewhere reading that someone thought the 1983 T4wd has a smaller-diameter strut tube. Well, I have the 1983 Tercel 4wd, and the strut cartridges that I ordered fit without any trouble, whatever that's worth. They are the Monroe Sensa-trac 72867ST cartridges. I suppose it is possible that some prior owner got some JY struts off a later model. But I very highly doubt that.

4. If you're doing the struts you should probably do the strut mounts. Order them before you get started. I get the impression that chances are good that with our cars, if they've never been replaced, they are either bad, or will soon be bad. I did not plan to replace them, but when I removed them I saw the little plastic covers that protect the bearings (bearing seals?) were trashed. They also did not rotate in a plane -- that is, they wobbled as you rotated them about the axis of the strut rod. I have surmised that they were responsible for a little clunk that I would hear on occasion as one strut or another absorbed a bump.

5. Don't forget to mark the camber adjustment thing.

6. I highly recommend doing the struts, if there are any lurkers out there who are unsure about it. Highly highly highly. It is a critical part of drivability / handling. If you're CV joints are bad, do the struts first. Because if your struts are crap then you will put way more stress on your CV joints, or so it seems to me. And it's possible, though unlikely, to mess up the CV boot during the strut replacement, e.g. if you drop the mount on to it. I suppose it's possible, too, that you could pull the halfshaft out inadvertently, if you were really reckless? Anyway, from my my experience, as a newb mechanic, the struts were indeed a pain in the ass, and they take some time -- at least for your first one. But it was not that bad. Definitely tougher than the half-shafts, which were pretty easy. You will need a 22mm socket for the nut on the new cartridges. In lieu of a big vice, you can use two pipe wrenches, or a pipe wrench and a big adjustable pliers, to remove the cartridge lockring. Don't use the pipe wrenches to grip the tube part -- put one of the two bolts on the bottom of the mount back in, and put the wrench around there. You'll also need a breaker bar and a torque wrench for the two bolts on the strut mount.

7. Just to ensure visibility of what I think is an important point, if your CV joints are crap, do replace them, but replace the struts first. You can easily do both struts and both halfshafts over a weekend.

8. Also, while I'm at it, I wanna recommend doing the shift lever bushing / seat / boot. I grabbed the part numbers off of some thread on here. Thank you thank you thank you. My bushing (or was it the seat? -- it was the rubber component, as opposed to plastic) was, like another poster's, almost completely disintegrated. No exaggeration. What was left appeared like a very thin washer. What replaced it was a big rubbery cup sort-of thing. The shifter play is greatly reduced, shifting is vastly improved.

That's about all I've got.

[Petros]

Good job on the struts. Sounds like you got the wrong springs, stock Tercel4wd springs have a coil at the top that is smaller. More coils also make for a softer spring, unless the spring wire is larger dia.

[ARCHINSTL]

Good info! Thanks!

See this for some info on front springs: https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... ing#p38847
While not mentioned in the preceding link, I got mine from Autozone in late 2007; dunno if it still carries them. They were $79 the pair. As I recall, they were a smidge thicker than the OE and a tad taller, which I attributed to aging on the OEs. I did double-check with MOOG to make sure I had the right ones. I think the MOOG number was xxx212.
The actual part number from AZ was 011159 (or 023933-both are shown). I think the former number is a vendor to AZ.

You might really want to check the bushings in the swaybar-to-control arm - you may be surprised... Do a Search for some threads on these bushings...
Tom M.

[takza]

3. I remember somewhere reading that someone thought the 1983 T4wd has a smaller-diameter strut tube. Well, I have the 1983 Tercel 4wd, and the strut cartridges that I ordered fit without any trouble, whatever that's worth. They are the Monroe Sensa-trac 72867ST cartridges. I suppose it is possible that some prior owner got some JY struts off a later model. But I very highly doubt that.

That was me...I have one of the earlier '83s...and believe it or not...I think they used rebuildable struts in a certain number of the first of the run...can't put a cartridge in these.

[Petros]

I thought all of them used the same size strut, I have owned, inspected and worked on all of the years. The early ones may have had rebuildable struts, but you can still install inserts. My '71 Datsun 510 (and all of the early 510s and 240z) had rebuildable struts, but no one ever rebuilt them, they installed inserts. The aftermarket struts are designed to fit into the strut tube, you just dump out the old strut parts, shaft and cap, and install the insert that threads into the stock cap threads at the top of the strut tube. The inserts have to be designed to fit into the strut tube. there is no money in selling a strut rebuild kit, (a few seals and new oil) so they sell the whole insert to replace all of the stock parts.

[takza]

The ones RockAuto sent me did not fit...they claimed that BeckArnley said they would and that was that.

[dlb]

1. I did in fact shear off a little flat / notch thing on the upper spring seat on my front right strut assembly. I was able to confirm this when I got the left front strut assembly off of the car. But it's not that important. I think it was all of my failed attempts to loosen the rod nut that stripped the seat. Lesson: make sure you have a long enough and fat enough bar to stick through the upper spring seat so that you will not screw anything up.

i'm putting the camry springs in the struts right now and am learning about struts as i go. i compressed the spring and had no trouble getting the shock insert nut off but when putting it back on, as soon as there was any resistance the whole insert would spin. i messed around and found i just had to compress the sh*t out of the spring until i could push the spring hat down so the flats on its underside locked in with the flats at the base of the thread on the insert. then the mount and shock insert nut go on fine. i've found both of my strut mounts have some wobble to them though so i'm going to replace them before i go any further.

[CMB]

8. Also, while I'm at it, I wanna recommend doing the shift lever bushing / seat / boot. I grabbed the part numbers off of some thread on here. Thank you thank you thank you. My bushing (or was it the seat? -- it was the rubber component, as opposed to plastic) was, like another poster's, almost completely disintegrated. No exaggeration. What was left appeared like a very thin washer. What replaced it was a big rubbery cup sort-of thing. The shifter play is greatly reduced, shifting is vastly improved. That's about all I've got.

Does anybody have a name or part number for that part? I have a ton of slop in the shifter, and it would be nice if it is that simple of a fix.

[ARCHINSTL]

I did an OE parts number thread on the shifter parts in the Parts Forum.
https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... ter#p35585
Tom M.