Engine out of auto trans and into manual?

[LittleRed4wd]

Hello tercel4wd.com!
My dad and I have been working on a project in which we have a Tercel with a bad motor but good body, as well as another Terc with a slightly rusted body but good motor. The plan has been to swap the good motor into the car with the good body, but when getting a bit of work done on the car with the good motor, our mechanic told us that because one car is automatic and the other is manual, the swap may not work. He said Toyota made different linkages and things depending on the transmission. So, would it be possible to swap a motor from an auto transmission (DX version) into a car with a manual (sr5 version)?
Here are the cars: (White car has good engine, red car has good body)

Thanks!

[tercel4wdrules]

It will work. All you have to do is swap the flywheel over from the old engine if it's going on the manual trans car. Good luck...

[LittleRed4wd]

Thanks for the info, guys! I did see the threads on gear ratios and switching flywheels. Just figured I'd check to make sure there's nothing big that would prevent the swap from working. Will post a writeup if we go through with swapping engines.

Thanks!

[Petros]

Welcome to the list!

Your mechanic is ignorant of this car, he should know better than to speak about something he clearly knows nothing about. What he says may be true of the newer computerized cars, not at all for the old carburetor engines (he may have never even worked on a car with a carburetor engine). It will swap just fine, I have done it, you just change the flywheel. I do not even think the camshafts are different, but even if they were that is an easy change over (check the cam shaft part numbers from the Toyota data base, any cam suppler can tell you).

I would seriously consider getting another mechanic as well.

BTW, there are several active Tercel4wd list members that live in or near Boulder, you should all get together some day.

[Highlander]

Hey LittleRed4wd, Is that you, Sam? If so PM me so we can chat.
There should be no problem with the swap. Do be careful afterwards not to rev the engine too high too soon, as the auto wouldn't let the engine run at high revs very often. I've seen engines swapped over that start to blow smoke due to having been driven by Granny before being put into something by Buster High Schooler and revved too aggressively.
One thing that you didn't mention was whether either one has AC or not- If one does and one doesn't, you'll have to swap the drivers side motor mount (only if you plan on keeping the AC) and the alternator brackets. Other than that, I've done engine changes by myself in one weekend including changing the intake/exhaust manifolds, etc (which is a pain until you do it a couple of times).

[splatterdog]

Yikes Petros! I'm pretty critical of other mechanics out there too, but lets give this guy a little more credibility. Without research or prior knowledge of this particular swap, how is he to know? I would say he answered correctly at the time. Conversions are frowned upon by most shops as the costs involved are usually a lot higher than the car owner is prepared for. Quoting a job like that is a whole nother story. Maybe he had no shortage of work at the time, and didn't want a "project". Our cars have long been "obsolete" to the majority in this world. Only had ONE of these come thru the front door for service and that was still back in the 80's. Newer cars don't have much if any leeway for engine swaps. Often only 2-3 years engine/trans can be used on any given make or model and auto/manual may not be compatible either.

Maybe he's a capable and experienced mechanic and knows this all too well. Many of us, some who don't even wrench for a living, know way more about the T4 than even Toyota dealers. Does that mean they are no good either?

It's been a while, but I've been burned by "it should fit". Even on old carb engines. I hate it when that happens.

Good call highlander on the driver side mount. I think early/late a/c engine mount brackets are different too. Just reuse the one the car came with.

[Barto]

Actually the cam is the only thing that is different and the auto has the better cam same as 4a-c. The one we swapped had way more power then the manual engine that was in it. I have a good friend that is an engine builder. He ran all of the #'s trying to find a better cam for his 4-ac powered corolla and it turned out that the factory auto 3-ac cars run the same cam as the 4-ac..... some more useless info for you

[ARCHINSTL]

Many of us, some who don't even wrench for a living, know way more about the T4 than even Toyota dealers. Does that mean they are no good either?

XLNT comment!
There have been a few times in the past where I have had occasion to call dealers to ask for a quote for a procedure on the T4WD.
One service 'advisor' laughed when I inquired. Another said that it had no one still around from when these cars came in (guess the same holds true for old Corollas, etc., huh?). Another told me to skip dealers and call around at independent shops and ask for 'old-time mechanics' or maybe run an ad in CraigsList for retired Toy techs.
Now, maybe this is not as much of a problem in places like the PacNWST or CA, where old crocks seem to live MUCH longer lives than in snowy/salty areas and appear regularly in dealers' shops for work, but not here...
This is cause for concern when something might pop up that, for assorted reasons, one might not feel comfortable doing oneself...like a clutch or trans or...(regardless of cost).
So - I guess that's why we have this Club and a FSM.
I'd imagine owners of whatever have similar probs - well, save for old 'Vettes and Mustangs and Bugs.
Tom M.

[danzo]

Actually the cam is the only thing that is different and the auto has the better cam same as 4a-c. The one we swapped had way more power then the manual engine that was in it. I have a good friend that is an engine builder. He ran all of the #'s trying to find a better cam for his 4-ac powered corolla and it turned out that the factory auto 3-ac cars run the same cam as the 4-ac..... some more useless info for you

Excellent info, Barto, thanks for posting this. Soon I will replace my cam/crank seals, water pump and t-belt, but I wanted to slap in a better cam. A few weeks ago I bought a 3a manual trans cam, but hopefully I can exchange it for a 4a cam. Does it matter if the 4a cam is from a manual or auto trans car?

[Petros]

Yikes Petros! I'm pretty critical of other mechanics out there too, but lets give this guy a little more credibility.

Now that I reread the post, perhaps you were right. He did say it "may" not fit. And I did not hear the whole conversation. I have just heard mechanics bad mouth the T4wd, usually because they do not know anything about them. Most flat rate mechanics hate working on old cars just because they do not know what they will find once they pull it apart (if they can get them apart at all!), so their tendency is to try to steer customers away from buying them at all.

Many of us, know way more about the T4 than even Toyota dealers. Does that mean they are no good either?

I would say they are no good, but not because they do not know much about the T4wd; they do not even know their own current cars that well, they are usually "newbie" mechanics ran through their school, they have a "captive" market (new car buyers that think the dealer mechanics are more knowledgeable than private garages), and I have personnel experiacne of them openly lying to me, my wife, and others I know. I have had employees working for me that complain about the crappy service they give, and I can usually diagnose the problem from the description of symptoms (without even looking at their car!) even though they took it back to the dealer many times to have it fixed again, and again, and again. It is not to say they do not have good mechanics, I just have heard of more than my share of bad experiences with Dealer mechanics.

The independent repair shop has much more to loose if they are not honest and conciliation about their work, so I would trust them more. But in large metropolitan areas, all bets are off. Too large a market so they can screw everyone that comes in the door and they would never run out of customers.

That is why I mostly service all of our cars, not just to save money, but it saves time and hassles since I can usually fix it once the first time, and not have to be inconvenienced to take it back to have it fix again and again.

Okay, rant over.

[splatterdog]

Definitely some valid points Petros. Especially nowadays. The economic crunch buried a lot of shops. Mostly the weak ones. Many surviving shops are now scraping up all the "skilled" help for pennies on the dollar. Some offering as little as 10 per hr for a job most won't/can't perform. Seems to be the new American way. Raise the price while reducing cost no matter the price. The last shop I worked for had a shop labor rate increase that was more than I made! No wonder I'm self employed....

Doesn't help that the tech schools were promising 100k either(no longer advertised). As long as this business eats it's young it will only get worse.

Any good mechanic should see the virtues of a T4. Some opinionated ones who think everything but what they like/work on is "junk" will always be self limited. Just about any engine service on a T4 including engine replacement are done mostly standing up. No horribly hidden bolts or special tools involved. On the older stuff though, I do find myself scratching my head a little sometimes. Hard to stay fresh on the old stuff when you are swamped with 95-05 cars.

Also, the dealer doesn't always guarantee qualified personel(see above, $10 per hr tech). I've had a couple repairs that were covered by factory warranty but the car owner had enough of the dealership and would rather pay out of pocket! What does that say?

But, I do have to defend my brethren, at least to some extent. The tech in question here did nothing wrong according to the original poster as I read it. He probably has never been to this site or replaced a T4 engine. If he actually can't change a T4 engine, then it's time to replace him!

It's because of the "gomers" out there that I jokingly use the avatar that I do here. Even though I'm on my own, there is still plenty of guilt by association.

Anyway, LittleRed4wd, swap that sucker!

[LittleRed4wd]

Hey thanks again for all the advise everyone! The white car is still at the shop getting emission work done. Getting it to pass emissions here has been a challenge, and has become too much of a problem for us and our neighbor (retired mechanic) so we took it to a shop. The shop spent a couple days on the car, unable to determine the problem. They didn't charge us and recommended the current shop doing work on the car. We are fairly confident he has experience with these old toyotas, and he does have an old T4 in the back. We are assuming that he just hasn't read up on the specifics for the swap, though if we do end up swapping we will probably do it ourselves.

I'll keep you guys updated--