Transmission Questions

[Ron B.]

After reading posts for a while on this forum I gather that Tercel manual transmissions develop problems as they age. Don't we all. What exactly are the problems that members experienced? Was it bearings? Synchros? Or was it something more serious like chipped gears or worn shafts? Have members discarded transmissions without tearing down and checking what went wrong?

[splatterdog]

Poor maintenance at some time in the car's life seems to be the biggest factor. Driving habits of course too. I have been fortunate,no grenades and my worst out of 4 only has only gear whine. No dissections yet for me.

The input bearings seem to be the most vulnerable on most any manual. Ours are more at risk as there are more input bearings and they are above the rest of the trans with the input shaft not inline with the mainshaft. It would be cool if the manual had a lube flow chart indicating what gets oil pressure. Most manuals only get splash oiling. For gear boxes, I have yet to see anything other than a transfer case have an oil pump.

From what I've heard here, the "end" typically starts with 5th popping out with more gears to follow. Could come from bearings(endplay),synchros,bent or worn shift collars/forks,broken detent springs,etc. Grenadings, at least on a previously healthy trans, are usually driver caused with maybe poor maintenance thrown in.

I would highly recommend synthetic oil. Worth it in any manual, especially obsolete ones that are diminishing in supply.

[Ron B.]

Poor maintenance at some time in the car's life seems to be the biggest factor. Driving habits of course too......No dissections yet for me..... The input bearings seem to be the most vulnerable on most any manual. Ours are more at risk as there are more input bearings and they are above the rest of the trans with the input shaft not inline with the mainshaft..... I would highly recommend synthetic oil. Worth it in any manual, especially obsolete ones that are diminishing in supply.

Thanks for the reply and info. My '84 SR5 has 257k miles on it. It was driven by a little old lady(really!) who kept meticulous car and records. I was given every receipt for service performed on the car after the warranty expired. The first invoice for synthetic tranny oil is from December 1989 at 82,000 miles. There are further invoices for tranny oil changes over the following years.

The transmission was never an issue until she complained about being hard to shift at 239k miles in March 2005. The shop drained and replaced the gear oil and added BG Synchro Shift. The clutch was replaced at 243K miles in October 2005 at which time they refilled the transaxle with 80W90 synthetic gear oil.

The transmission was supposedly never an issue until I took ownership. I drove the car and immediately noticed a noise when idling in neutral or moving in any gear. There is no noise when idling or coasting when the clutch is disengaged. That leads me to believe the input shaft bearings are shot.

So, I decided to remove the tranny myself with the aid of the FSM and Petros' guidance. I drained the oil and it came out clean which is not surprising since there are only 14k miles on the last oil change. The drain plug magnets had a very small amount of iron particles on their sides. I am about 75% done with the necessary steps and as Harry Callahan said in "Magnum Force", "A man's got to know his limitations." Well, it is just too much for this physically damaged old fart. I give up. I'm either going to have the work done by someone else in my garage or I will have it flatbedded to their location.

Assuming that the problem is minor and is only the input shaft bearings, what grade synthetic would you recommend? I've had good results in my cars with Red Line Synthetic MTL (70W80) and MT-90 (75W90) lubes.

Oh, to be young again.

[trevmountain]

I like Amsoil 75-90 Severe gear. I've had it in my terc since 170,00. It's got 220,000 on it now and going strong.

[4x4wagon]

noise during idle or when the clutch is disengauged sounds to me like the throwout bearing being bad. I had a Bronco II that did the exact same thing. My Legend use to do that too until the throwout was replaced. I am new to the Tercel so I don't have any more information for you, this is just what I have experienced with other cars in the past.

I wish you good luck in anything you do with the car.

[takza]

My last trans with over 200K on it started to put metal particles into the oil...so that when drained into a pan and looked at under a strong light or in sunlight...it looked metallic. Can't really see this unless it is allowed to settle and is under strong light. Guessing I had a bearing start to go....got very noisy..a white noise. No gear whine or shifting issues.

[Mattel]

Ron, I would defiantly second 4x4wagons diagnosis of the throwout bearing, as far as I am concerned this item should be changed when the clutch gets changed. It's apparently relatively easy to do. I did not get this changed when my first Terc clutch went and had exactly the same issues as you. I recall that some clutch sellers sold a little kit for extra with the clutch that includes these bearings and other small items (perhaps some gaskets and moly-lithium grease?). If you have the inclination to open the clutch and have a look I'd expect all to come apparent. I look forward to seeing your car on the road and admire your attention to detail.

[Ron B.]

Ron, I would defiantly second 4x4wagons diagnosis of the throwout bearing, as far as I am concerned this item should be changed when the clutch gets changed..... I look forward to seeing your car on the road and admire your attention to detail.

I may have worded my post in a way that confused both you and 4x4wagon. There is NO noise when the clutch is disengaged (pushed to the floor). I would agree that the throwout bearing would be defective if it was noisy when the pedal is depressed. The bearing was replaced along with the clutch 14k miles ago leading me to believe the problem is in the transmission, either the input shaft bearings or bearings deeper inside the case.

Thanks for the compliments. I am totally anal when it comes to details plus my wife is an angel......she puts up with me and my projects.

[4x4wagon]

Oh, I see. You meant when the clutch itself is disengaged, I was thinking when the clutch pedal is disengaged. Well if that is when it's making the noise, it is probably something deeper inside the trans then. I myself cannot offer anymore information as to what it may be, but I do hope you get the issue resolved easily.

[Ron B.]

.....I do hope you get the issue resolved easily.

Oh, it will be easy now that I have someone scheduled to come over and remove the transmission for me! I will then have the transmission rebuilt with new bearings, synchros, gaskets and seals by a pro. I plan to have all internal parts cryo hardened before it is reassembled. Hopefully, that will be the end of transmission concerns. Hopefully?!

[Mattel]

I'm pretty sure we're on the same wavelength with the sounds.. i.e only had noise when the clutch peddle was out but none when the peddle was pressed in. It was especially noticeable when rolling down in a hill with the clutch out in gear but strangely I had no sound in neutral. perhaps there was something else wrong with my old rig that the clutch replacement started off?

[toughtercel]

I use to had 86 4WD , first have to press the clutch panel down so starter will work anyway ,every morning when I start the car , idial at 2,000 rpm and when I release the clutch , it always reduce to 1,700 rpm at same time car move forward few inches at neutral . what that mean ,all my other 4WD doesn't have that problem

[Ron B.]

.....every morning when I start the car , idial at 2,000 rpm and when I release the clutch , it always reduce to 1,700 rpm at same time car move forward few inches at neutral.....

Generally they are signs that the gear oil has thickened when cold. Was the car kept outside in cold temps? Did the symptoms manifest themselves during warm or hot weather? Was the gear oil the proper viscosity?

[ARCHINSTL]

Well - here is yet another transmission (?) noise to add to the list:
This occurs usually only at 60 +/- a bit...I hit 60 and reduce the pedal pressure just a tad (as in going down a hill with the radar car at the bottom) and I get a kind of rattle, seemingly from the trans. It's not real loud, but just pretty noticeable. When I resume speed, it disappears.
The car has 180K miles. The OE clutch is tired, but smooth starts are still obtainable. I rarely hit over 65 - not from my senescence, but that of Goldie's.
Tom M.

[garyfish]

I think I need to replace the input shaft and/or its associated bearings in the manual tranny of my '85 T4WD w/ 238,000 miles. When I bought the car last February it had a peculiar noise (see below) which I thought was the clutch, but the noise remained after I replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate, pilot bearing, and throwout bearing. It appears to be the same problem noted by the late great Rob B. in a post here a few months ago:

a noise when idling in neutral or moving in any gear. There is no noise when idling or coasting when the clutch is disengaged. That leads me to believe the input shaft bearings are shot.

So, my question is this: Has anyone on the list dealt with this issue successfully? I'm thinking perhaps I don't need to swap out the whole tranny, and that I may be able to get by if I replace the input shaft & its bearings.

Any input or assistance here will be most welcome... procedures, sources for parts, whether or not it's recommended for "backyard" mechanics with standard tools, etc.