Slotted Rotors?

[gatemaster]

I was wondering if anybody knows if this is a good price for these rotors and ceramic pads. Also is this a good brand?

83 84 85 86 TOYOTA TERCEL Slotted Brake Rotors + Ceramic Pads F

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/83-84-85 ... ccessories

[garyfish]

I can't vouch for the brand (R1 Concepts Inc.), and have no experience w/ slotted rotors.

But, if you DO order from this eBay seller, make sure you get parts that will fit the T4WD:
83-88 TOY TERCEL Wgn 4WD Brake Rotors + Ceramic Pads F
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/83-88-TO ... ccessories

[ARCHINSTL]

While I have no info on these parts - it would be informative if you did a comparison report if you get them - maybe stopping distances from xx MPH and noise levels and so forth. I don't think anyone has done such a report before on any rotors/pads like this.
Tom M.

[Petros]

the one in the picture is not for a Tercel. If these are quality parts the price seems good (cheap rotors and pads would cost about $70-80). You can find and compare prices elsewhere, the front pads are common to other Toyota models (including the MR2 which has some good brake stuff available for it).

The rear MR2 rotors from the early '84-86 (?) is exactly the same as the front Tercel rotors. So if you search for slotted and drilled early MR2 rear rotors you can compare prices.

The slots and vents are supposed to improve braking and reduce the chance of warping, which the Tercel needs, I have warped mine on long down hill descent (no hard stops or panic stops, just keeping the speed under control)

You can also switch the front brakes to the '91-94 Tercel (2wd) that has vented front disks. They will bolt right up, you will need the rotors and the calipers. Same piston dia, same disk dia, and same pad, so the brake ratio does not change, but you will get the better vented disks that will not warp. You can also switch to the MR2 or Corolla vented front disks but you would need to shim the rotors out about .020", you can buy spacers from NAPA cheap.

Good luck.

[splatterdog]

I have seen pad life nearly doubled on 88-98 chevy trucks. Still kinda sucks at 40-60k miles if you ask me, but better than the 20-30k they usually get. I've made several for many different types of cars/trucks with a mill and turntable using cheap rotors too! They work. Just don't expect night and day difference. One nice thing about most boxed "performance" rotor's is they have zinc chromate or some other type of plating that helps them resist rust.

I do miss that machine. I never got around to slotting up my own rotors(my crap always comes last). Oh well, beats 10+ hours of suffering five days a week, not to mention personal projects or even basic car needs were frowned upon in that shop.

[takza]

The slots and vents are supposed to improve braking and reduce the chance of warping, which the Tercel needs, I have warped mine on long down hill descent (no hard stops or panic stops, just keeping the speed under control)

Use engine braking?

[Ron B.]

Be careful with inexpensive rotors and pads that you see on eBay. The rotors are more than likely made in China and machined in the US or Canada. Are they tested when they are manufactured in China or after they are modified? Do they meet US DOT standards?

In normal circumstances drilled and/or slotted rotors are not going to help you stop quicker or in shorter distances. The holes, slots and dimples are put into rotors to help evacuate the gasses that are created when organic pads contact them. Those gasses may cause the pads to lose contact with the rotors in a manner similar to a tire which aquaplanes on water.

If not done properly, the holes and slots actually weaken the rotors and have been known to cause cracks in the rotors. These photos will offer some backup to my statement: http://tinyurl.com/DrilledRotors

Brembo is a well-respected manufacturer of brake components and their products are not inexpensive. Brembo does not warranty drilled rotors against warping and cracking.

All the information that you need about brakes and tires is available at: http://www.tirerack.com/ At the top of the page are pull down menus and shopping tools. Within the shopping tools are Tech Tips and customer reviews where you can learn everything you wanted to know about tires, wheels, brakes, suspension etc. The Tire Rack is the main sponsor of the Cannonball/One Lap of America and they test the products that they sell on their own test tracks in South Bend, Indiana. I have been buying wheels, tires and brake components from them for many years. Their prices are unbeatable and with warehouses all over the US, orders are delivered within a couple days.

I suggest that you consider ATE Premium One rotors for only $31 each from the Tire Rack. They have a special coating on them to prevent rust, a wear indicator and nice looking grooves to help evacuate gasses and reduce fade. ATE rotors are made by Continental Teves a company based in Germany that started over 100 years ago.

As far as pads are concerned I've had good results with Akebono Euro Ceramic and Satisfied Gran Sport. Hawk Performance Ceramic is another pad to consider.

FYI, I do not own stock nor any interest in the Tire Rack or Continental Teves. I am simply offering my experiences with them as opinions to help you decide on what is best for your purposes.

Getting back to the eBay rotors and pads, it's like buying blind. You don't know anything about the company that makes them or the company that sells them. You don't know if they are safe or if they will improve your braking. Think of them as cheap costume jewelry....lots of bling but no substance.

Cheers!

Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles

[gatemaster]

Ron, Thanks very much for your valuble information.

[Ron B.]

Ron, Thanks very much for your valuble information.

You're welcome. I hope it helped.

Cheers!

Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles

[splatterdog]

Be careful with inexpensive rotors and pads that you see on eBay. The rotors are more than likely made in China and machined in the US or Canada. Are they tested when they are manufactured in China or after they are modified? Do they meet US DOT standards?

In normal circumstances drilled and/or slotted rotors are not going to help you stop quicker or in shorter distances. The holes, slots and dimples are put into rotors to help evacuate the gasses that are created when organic pads contact them. Those gasses may cause the pads to lose contact with the rotors in a manner similar to a tire which aquaplanes on water.

If not done properly, the holes and slots actually weaken the rotors and have been known to cause cracks in the rotors. These photos will offer some backup to my statement: http://tinyurl.com/DrilledRotors
I suggest that you consider ATE Premium One rotors for only $31 each from the Tire Rack.

Unfortunately US rotors are becoming a thing of the past(Wagner rotors are all chinese now unless you get old stock). Even domestic oem's rarely use them anymore for well over 10 years. To be fair I have installed hundreds of chinese rotors with a high degree off success. They aren't much worse than OE at a fraction of the price. Numerous vehicles in the last 10 years that I have serviced have needed rotors before pads on their very first brake job. Crap off, crap back on. The biggest problem with them is usually installer related(rust on hub creating instant runout,calipers not cleaned and lubed and of course wheel torque). And there are NO D.O.T standards for rotors. Just manufacturer specs and product liability.

Cracking can be an issue. But it's more of a use factor. People who seek out performance brake products usually are alot harder on their car to begin with. Ever see what police do to their brakes? Ouch! And for racing it's a no brainer, gotta pay to play.

How are the ATE rotors holding up? German cars were the pioneers of rotors at every brake job. Not from rust but way below spec by the time the pads were done.

I would probably stay away from generic ebay rotors. If something goes wrong it's much easier to warranty them thru your local supplier. Points the product liabilty at deeper pockets too.

[Petros]

Use engine braking?

loaded with a passanger and ski gear, that tiny engine does not slow you much on long steep decents. You need to use the brakes.

[Ron B.]

.....To be fair I have installed hundreds of chinese rotors with a high degree off success. They aren't much worse than OE at a fraction of the price. Numerous vehicles in the last 10 years that I have serviced have needed rotors before pads on their very first brake job.....

.....How are the ATE rotors holding up? German cars were the pioneers of rotors at every brake job. Not from rust but way below spec by the time the pads were done.

Spatterdog, Your statement "They aren't much worse than OE at a fraction of the price" is kinda scary. How much is a life worth? That sounds like a case of being "Penny-wise and pound foolish."

My point about rotors made in China and modified in the US or Canada is that there is no way of knowing the quality of the finished product. Life is too short and I don't want to make it shorter with unproven/unsafe brake components. I buy only brand names of everything whether auto-related or supermarket items.

As far as the ATE rotors are concerned, I cannot give you an answer. First off, my wife and I are very easy on brakes, clutches and cars in general. The factory rotors and pads on the Passat lasted over 70k miles front and rear. I changed to the ATE/Akebono combination at 96k miles only because I was tired of the brake dust deposits caused by the newer VW pad compound. I had the ATE rotors cryo-treated before I installed them about 1,000 miles ago. Give me a few years and 60k miles or so and I'll give you a definitive answer!

German car manufacturers build their cars for different types of drivers and roads than are typical of the US. In Germany cars are generally driven faster and in less traffic than in the US. Americans don't want to hear noise when they use their brakes. They want long life. Germans on the other hand, appreciate performance and you can't have both. "You can't always get what you want", Rolling Stones, 1968.

How easy are we on clutches? We purchased a new 1972 Ford Gran Torino Sport in November 1971. The car was equipped with a Q-code 351 Cobra Jet and a 4-speed. It had over 120k miles on the original clutch when we put it into storage at 10 years of age. Here are some photos of that car on the Bonneville Salt Flats: http://tinyurl.com/72Torino

For what it's worth.........As an aside comment, this is the only group of which I am a member that people do not give their names. I find it very impersonal to refer to people by their user names or words or whatever they chose.

Cheers!

Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon with 257k miles

[takza]

Use engine braking?

loaded with a passanger and ski gear, that tiny engine does not slow you much on long steep decents. You need to use the brakes.

Not to argue...but I had around 650 lbs total in my wagon going down a long grade...and since my last mountain driving was in a bus with drums all around...I kept it in 3rd gear most of the way down. Engine temp was way below normal by the bottom of the hill...but I still had good brakes....since I tested them . I let it run up to maybe 2500-3000 rpm...used the brakes to bring it down...and so on. Cycling.

A lot of people in cars don't really know how to use engine braking...or don't need to if in the right car.

[splatterdog]

Ron.
If you have had brakes done outside of the dealer for at least 10-15 years, It is extremely likely you got chinese rotors. Underhanded car dealers will sometimes sell you OE and put on pure profit too. If any of this scares you, you might want to move to a country that hasn't embraced them. They are everywhere and have been for quite a while. My very liability conscience former employer had no problem with the mods we did on cheap rotors and likely talked to his lawyer before offering the service. I protect myself by following procedure. The suppliers take the risk by supplying them to the public. They have much deeper pockets than this lowly grease monkey will ever have. That's what the lawyers like. I think doityourselfers with any parts are a far bigger risk to public safety.

I do have one exception to the fine china. Commercial vehicles and 3/4-1 ton trucks. "power users" usually don't squeal at the price of better rotors making it a much easier sell. I will often give the option for better rotors to anyone, but have few takers.

It is just a matter of time before OE's use them too. If you had your hands on as many cars as I do you would be appalled at the "made in" stickers origins. Wire harnesses started to come out of thailand for domestic vehicles around 2000. I'm amazed any domestics meet the threshold to be called domestics.

Years ago when I did time at one of the largest brake chains in the country, I saw the chinese rotor invasion begin about 15 years ago. List prices stayed the same of course(plenty greed back then too). If they truly were dangerous, I think the millions of rotors already installed would have generated major controversy by now. Many motorists cannot afford dealer repairs or even just the parts, those sharks sometimes charge 2-3 10ths of an hour just to pull it in the shop! Go union.....

Also the german cars with one shot rotors had comparable pad life to every other car that came in, not counting the lemons. This might ruffle a few feathers but Ford's usually get the most pad life. Unless the trucks were really worked or fought traffic regularly they usualy got over 100k out of the brakes. My observations indicate 35-45k is the average pad life for most cars and their drivers. Some have gotten better the last few years. Your 96k indicates you don't drive like a moron or race your car.

Many people cannot afford your brand name only approach. Those companies rely heavily on brand loyalty. Keep up the good work and congrats on your financials allowing you to be a top shelf consumer. Are you sure a terc or the majority of members here aren't beneath you?

If you could bring back aftermarket US rotors I would much appreciate it...

BTW, I only use top or second to the top of the line pads.

My only concern for life with these rotors are the poor souls that produce them for chicken feed.

To leave on a more positive note. Like the Torino! Had a 72 with a 429(not fastback) That was the second vehicle that engine finished off. Came out of a very rusty low mileage 72 country squire that dominated most cars it ran against(exact twin to "harry and the hendersons" wagon except for wood grain racing stripes on the hood and 3/4 of the roof removed the last year) Was still going but finally got retired after 5 more hard years in my 77 supercab. Also, all three vehicles went to the grave with original rotors even with my youthfull abuse.

OK, skip the US rotors and give me a time machine.....

[Ron B.]

Ron.....Are you sure a terc or the majority of members here aren't beneath you?.....

I really don't know what to make of that question nor the intention of it. Would you care to elaborate?

I consider myself kind of a "foster parent" to orphaned cars. How many people do you know that will do a ground-up restoration on a Corvair or an Econoline pickup? I like tinkering and restoring off-beat vehicles even though the payback is much less than the money spent. It is the polar opposite of the monetary return on restoring a Mustang, GTO or Chevelle. It is a hobby and it keeps me out of trouble. I consider it entertainment and a lot cheaper than playing the ponies or trips to Vegas.

My first car was a '65 Galaxie 500XL with a 390/330HP Police Interceptor and a top-loader 4-speed. Because it had solid lifters it had only a 3 month & 3,000 miles warranty which was the same as the 427/425. These are the only three photos that I have of the car: http://tinyurl.com/Galaxie500XL

By the way, I bought a new '83 SR5 Wagon when they first arrived in the states. I had it until I traded it in on an '87 SR5 4Runner. My first Japanese car was a '72 Honda Z600 which weighed 500 pounds less than a Smart ForTwo! I have dealer brochures for every car that I bought or leased since 1965. I also have a few window stickers and bills of sale. My garage has a great deal of framed automobile advertising, signed photos and original movie posters. See some of the collection here: http://tinyurl.com/GarageMahal I guess you can say that I am "car crazy."

So, why won't members reveal their names in this group? Strange indeed.

Cheers!

Ron B. in Lake George, NY
'84 SR5 Wagon