A few items, Last Chance...

[Teddy]

Okee.

Take care, all.

[splatterdog]

Hope we didn't scare you away. It would be nice to see the real math all broken down. I picked the first 1.9 tdi on car-part I could find. Is there a cheap year/make/model for a donor? I haven't had a vw diesel cross my plate since the late 80's so I'm not familiar with anything current. But I would find it hard to believe that it is entirely or even mostly mechanical. The newer domestic diesel trucks wouldn't know what to do with out lots of electronics.

Please explain.

[Typrus]

Don't leave us again Teddy >.<
Heck if you can stand gutting an interior and putting it back together, let alone getting out to Colorado I'm sure we could get Red figured out. I already have all the seats and carpeting out of it, the dash will be the biggest hassle. It needs to be cleaned from being mouse infested in a field for a few years. Body is straight and relatively rust free. Could use some attacking underneith with a wire wheel and some coating.

Man, I am so glad I am not alone in this! Sheesh!
How long have I been trying to plug the idea of a VW TD or TDI?

Oh, by the way, our 1Z 1.9L TDI motor is up to 248,000 miles on the factory clutch, no sensors have been changed, it hasn't been regasketed (except for a head set the one time we blew the timing belt and by the grace of God it did zero damage), in fact nothing but the ECM, Injection pump, turbo and injector nozzles have been changed. And the Nozzles are roughly every 100-150,000 mile wear items and are easy for anyone who does their own work to swap at home. The Turbo's go every 150-200,000 miles.
At about 210,000 miles we had the turbo and ECM changed for a performance upgrade. The turbo is about 30% bigger, and the ECM is the later "GQ" Passat ECM, where we had the earlier "BK" ECM. So it was an upgrade also.
The engine still runs cherry and will churn tires all day long if you ask it to. Well, the clutch is starting to slip, so check that statement- it would if the clutch would let it.

So reliability is not a big deal.


OH! And glow plugs were done too. 10mm socket and a little time and they are done.

Hell, I never have to "tune" or change ANYTHING running-wise on that engine. So where's this hassle?

Go find an old Jetta, Golf, or Passat and yank its old 1.6TD, 1.9TD, or if you are daring and are willing to rework some wiring, 1Z or AHU 1.9TDI.

Torque? Hell yes. I can start it moving on a hill with no throttle in first, then shift up through the gears with no throttle, just idling.
Fuel economy? Duh. My dad can get 50mpg out of our 96 Passat. I can't get it past 46, but I torture it. Worst I've seen is 44mpg, beating the hell out of it. And thats post-upgrades.
Reliability? Read above. Slap a timing belt on every 60,000 miles, keep good fluids in it, and you'll see little to no problems for six-digit stretches at a time.


The 1.6TD's have been able to propel Golf's well into the 70mpg area and the ALH TDI's (the ones from the late 90's, early thousands with the variable vane trubos) have pushed A4-body Golf's into the 80mpg arena with a little bit of correct modding.




Splatterdog- the ones to which he is referring are the 1.6NA IDI's, the 1.6TD IDI's, and the 1.9TD IDI's (the AAZ being most common) which are purely mechanically operated designs. In 96, the Passat introduced the first "TDI" engine. The first of the Direct Injection motors with electronic controls. This was the "1Z". A similar motor came out shortly thereafter with improved piston strength, the "AHU". Both had an electronically controlled, "drive-by-wire" injection pump and several electronic controls in their turbo's wastegating system. The next generation were the "ALH" engines. They had improved block strength, and a few improvements to the rotating assembly. Their biggest change was the implementation of the VNT-15 turbocharger. It had the Garret Variable-Vane technology, and as such relied heavily on computer controls. It maintained more or less the same injection system. After the ALH came the "Pumpe-Duse" engines. I won't go into detail on them as they are a bit too computer heavy and not as efficient fuel-wise as the earlier motors.

OR, you can stereotype about old truck diesels with Roosa-Master DB2 injection pumps or earlier designs that required a little love every now and again to keep running right.

[ARCHINSTL]

This is kinda off-topic, but here goes anyway...
I see all of the interesting info about the assorted VW diesels - are/were there that many of these on the road at one time/still?
I'm not saying there were none sold in the St. Louis area, and I'm sure that I've passed/seen them and not known it...but were there tens of thousands of these cars out there, enough so that they are/were fairly common?
Were they MUCH more popular in some areas of the USA than in my neck of the woods? In my previous occupation, I loaded bicycles into/onto hundreds of car trunks/racks each week, and I just do not recall any VW diesels (two customers had those silly Rabbit pickup "trucks" at one time...), which were useful hauling two bags of mulch - period.
Tom M.

[Typrus]

The TDI's are VERY common. the IDI's are relatively common.

[splatterdog]

Years/makes/models? That would narrow things down as far as donor engines. I don't see enough or even like vw's enough to know which engines are which. I would find it hard to believe anything 96 and up would be mechanical. That would necessitate a fully capable scan tool. Granted vw's have a VERY cheap scan tool available,provided you already have a laptop(vag-com). but that will use half of your $700 for the project.

All the for sure mechanical VW diesels of the 80's were all gone around here almost 20 years ago. Every one would shake your fillings loose and would make cd listening impossible unless you had a jogger player cushioned by your lap. I know that wasn't a problem before cd's! They idled like it was going over washboard at high speed. The dash boards actually shook a measurable amount at idle!

From my observations, given the large slide in quality from the German automakers, and that statement is aimed at all of their brands, I wouldn't use any of their parts on my car. Much less own one. I rarely get enough time to work on my stuff and European part prices are astronomical compared to a stock terc.

I usually try to think of "how" in these situations but I can't help but thinking why in this case?

[Typrus]

Theres a reason I said 1Z, AHU's, and ALH's are the only way to go. When you get into the TDI-PD's and the BEW's, reliability is a bit more questionable, plus they are more complicated and yield lower economy numbers.

Early 90's 1.9L Turbo-IDI engine- AAZ
1996-late 1998- 1Z or AHU
1999-2003- ALH

1Z and AHU motors-
1.9 litre 4-cylinder 90hp (A3 type) - used in various models sold until approximately 1998 in Europe and North America. Within this document we will call this the A3 engine even though it was also used in other models, because the most popular cars sold with this engine were the A3-chassis Golf, Jetta, and Vento sold from 1994 until early 1999. Not all model years were available in all markets, and this engine was replaced by the newer type (here called the A4 type) gradually over a period of years. Other models sold with this engine include the B4 Passat (1995 - 1997), VW Sharan minivan, and various Audi models.


The injection system uses a distributor-type pump. On cars with transverse engines, the A3 engine can be distinguished from the later type by the spin-on oil filter on the front of the engine facing down at an angle, the air filter housing is at the right front corner of the car, and the two black plastic pipes to the intercooler lead towards the left front corner of the car. There are other differences, but these are the most easily visible.


The turbocharger is a conventional wastegate type.


ALH Motor-
1.9 litre 4-cylinder 90hp (A4 type) - used in various models available in Europe and North America from 1998 on, this gradually replaced the previous engine as the car models were changed. Within this document we will call this the A4 engine because the most common application is the A4-chassis Golf, Jetta, Bora, New Beetle, and various models from Seat and Skoda using the same chassis.


The injection system uses a distributor-type pump. The oil filter is a cartridge type, and sits in a vertical container on the front of the engine towards the left of the car. On cars with transverse engines, the air filter housing is at the left side of the engine compartment and the two black plastic pipes to the intercooler lead towards the right front corner - exactly the opposite of the arrangement used on the previous model.


On North American models, the turbocharger is a variable-vane type. On European models, the turbocharger is a conventional wastegate type. The North American A4 engine is essentially a Euro 110hp A4 engine but with engine controls optimized for emissions rather than performance.


As sourced from Fred's TDI Club (www.tdiclub.com) FAQ's.
The PD took over the ALH in 2004.

Check this out for some better detail- http://www.tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-1.html#a

[Typrus]

Oh- another thing.
The TDI's and the IDI's have meshed-non-crossflow heads. Like the 3AC. Sounds inefficient, but for one, their cylinder heads are rather tall freeing up some flow. For another, you aren't running past 4500-5000 RPM, depending on model. Not to mention that there is a gentleman running an ALH with some pretty nice mods pushing 318HP and 493ft/lb out of a stock 1.9L displacement. Think his name is Tom Calvert.... (sourced from Diesel Power Mag "10 Best Diesels of 08")
Now heres the good thing about that. The intermeshed manifolds, with the engine in the longitudinal orientation, are on the passenger side. Same as the 3AC. That makes exhaust routing easy. Not to mention, getting an intake manifold that faces forward is easy. ALH's have them. The 1Z's and I believe AHU's are rear-facing. I'd have to go look to see if there'd be clearance regardless, but dad took the Passat to work today.

Also, utilizing a longitudinal orientation, you could eliminate the sharp curve off of the turbo to get pointing back. It would just feed off the back of the turbo straight back under under the car. So exhaust would flow better.

A side mounted intercooler could be put somewhere and airflow piped to it, or a front mount intercooler could be made work. You could get quite a bit of power out of the rig, but the transmissions integrity comes into light at that point. I get the feeling that if we followed Teddy's advice and beefed up some tranny componants, maybe put in a circulatory pump, if not to cool the fluid (not sure if heat is one of its challenges) then to at least get a stream of it to the input shaft bearing and mayber the gear between the input and counter shafts bearing. Then probably have the whole tranny cryo-treated. That'd further improve its strength. Almost wonder how much it could handle then.

[CathodeRayTube]

Im all for Diesel and i belive thats the way i want to go. either put in a diesel engine (VW or a 2C-T toyota one (one is on ebay but is expensive)) or leave the stock 3A-C alone until i can go diesel or fully electric (electric prolly wont happen because the cost of batteries and controllers are obscene at this point). the problem with the 3a, 4afe and 4age is that they all use gasoline. and lets face it, gasoline costs are going to skyrocket and it may dissapear alltogether within the next 20-50 years. I work at a fast food place where i can get enought spent fryer grease to meet all my fuel needs.

keep this thread alive, id like to see and hear from more people interested in diesel swaps or who have completed them already.

[takza]

Here you go?

http://www.made-in-china.com/products-s ... ngine.html

[gobbl3gook]

Teddy,
If you're still around, "Craigspal" is your friend.
http://craigspal.com/
I just bought a primo '87 with 96,000 miles for $1600. In Seattle. There's a good supply here in the NW. Higher mileage with decent bodies go for $800.
Ted in WA