Hydraulic clutch?

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Sat Apr 03, 2004 7:54 pm

Does anyone have, or has anyone seen, a Tercel 4wd with a hydraulic clutch? they are rare, and I have never seen the actual parts, but I have a theory: The 87-88 SR5's, and only those, came with a hydraulic clutch. I have driven two such cars, and both of them felt had one. I can tell by the feel, but I haven't seen the parts. Maybe they just had really good clutch cables, but I doubt it. Hydraulic has a distinctive feel as opposed to cable.

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:57 pm

I hate to disappoint you but according to the Mitchell's info there is no such thing as a hydraulic clutch on a Tercel 4WD. I went to my local library and I knew they had an 87 and 88 Mitchell manual so I made copies of the pages of clutch related stuff for the Tercel wagon and they didn't come out as well so I'll scan them and touch them up so that you can read them and I'll send you the scanned images via email. I made copies because the books are for reference and "Library Use Only" so that's why I made copies of the 2 pages. Quote from the 1987 Mitchell manual " Clutches- TOYOTA TERCEL- Description- Clutch is single disc using diaphragm spring type pressure plate. Actuation is mechanical, using an adjustable cable connected to clutch pedal and release fork. A permanently lubricated release bearing is used." Quote from the 1988 Mitchell manual "CLUTCHES- Toyota Tercel - DESCRIPTION- Clutch is single disc using diaphragm spring type pressure plate and a permanently lubricated release bearing. On Tercel wagon models, clutch actuation is mechanical, using an adjustable cable connected to a clutch pedal and release fork. On Tercel sedan models, clutch operation is hydraulically controlled by a firewall mounted master cylinder and clutch housing mounted slave cylinder."

I don't know if for some strange reason they made a mistake, but I also don't think there is a hydraulically controlled clutch for the stock 87-88 SR5's. I wonder though if you could take the parts out of the sedan and put them into the Tercel 4WD, will that work? What would be the advantages of having a hydraulic clutch?

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:55 am

Your findings only confirm my findings as far as literature goes. I have found no reference to a Tercel wagon hydraulic clutch anywhere, nor physically seen one. It was all just an illusion experienced in driving two 87-88 SR5's on two seperate occasions.

First, about 5-6 years ago when I owned the 85, a large local used car lot had a few wagons, rusty and cheap, and I test drove an 87-88 SR5 with tan interior with particular interest in the transmission. 2nd gear synchro was sweet, but as is too often the case, 3rd was grindy. The clutch action felt hydraulic, though I didn't look at the clutch, I just assumed by the pedal feel that it had one.

The second occasion, I recently spotted an 87-88 Tercel SR5 in a parking lot on a busy Toronto street. I stopped and drove around into the parking lot to see it, and it turns out the owner was changing a flat tire. I offered help and a better jack, and we found the factory aluminum wheel was seized to the hub. No amount of kicking or pulling could budge it, so I put the wheel back down with the lugs off, put it in 4WD and popped the clutch in EL and reverse a few times to loosen the wheel. Again, I was sure the clutch was hydraulic because it felt so different, so much more like a hydraulic clutch. It could just be that those particular two cars had very well lubricated clutch cables or perhaps the mechanism changed somewhat in 87.

Now that my doubts have been cleared up, let's change the course of this thread: Who would like a hydraulic clutch? All I need is a couple brackets for the firewall to adapt a hydraulic pedal, a bracket to attach the slave cylinder to the transmission using existing bolts, and a partial or whole linkage. All of these could be done with my existing facilities (hacksaw, 3/8" hand drill, tap+die set, etc.) Once I've got the design (piece of cake, most likely) I can start making kits for people. It would probably use the 87-90 EL30 series Tercel pedal and cylinders since they're flooding the junkyards these days.

tercel4wdrules · Post by **tercel4wdrules** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 1:04 am

I'm glad that I helped. Your idea of the kit is interesting and people would want to buy them if you had the right marketing strategy.

WeirdAl · Post by **WeirdAl** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 7:37 am

My '87 SR5 doesn't have a hydraulic clutch, and I don't think the clutch effort is enough to need one. If you were putting down a ton of power and had a heavy clutch, then maybe

Thereminator · Post by **Thereminator** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:32 pm

Hey Mr. Engineer,Hows-bow't desining a lightweight,afordable Skidplate/Houseing for our Tranny and #2 CV joints? Also,Shifting into 2nd is ruffer(clunks a-little when its cold) then the others,Should I be a-sceered of the aufull-little syncro-Demon,and shift a certain way?

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:18 pm

2nd gear is at the top of my priority list. 3rd gear comes next. I'm going to see what is different about Toyota's redesigned synchro rings and how much of a difference they make. Eventually, I'll be making some gear, hub and synchro units for optimum shifting. I've been reading a little about transmission and gear design. To put up with the crappy synchro you've got, start double clutching into 2nd when you downshift and be gentle on the shifter. It works better if you push with your fingers rather than your palm, while letting the rest of your hand be flexible. This way when the synchros line up and the hub slides into engagement, your hand moves to push it the rest of the way in quickly. Changing the gear oil to redline MT-90 or similar also does wonders.

20vtercel · Post by **20vtercel** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 12:08 pm

You can retrofit the clutch system of a AE86 to fit. Weld on 2 standoffs for the actuator on the bellhousing. you'll have to get a 90 deg. drill to get the holes for the cylinder. The pedal should bolt directly underneath the dash with little effort. I'll take a stab at it if someone wants to be a guinne pig!!!!

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 1:10 pm

Thats what I was thinking was probably possible. It's hard to justify though; unless one were to install a performance clutch kit I guess. There are a couple of AE86's at my local wrecking yard. Maybe I'll grab the master and slave clutch cylinders with tubing for future use... But if some of the fwd tercels have them too, maybe the parts would fit better?

20vtercel · Post by **20vtercel** » Mon Apr 12, 2004 9:08 pm

I guess it doesn't matter but the AE86's firewall to dash support is similar to our tercels. I guess the actuator can be from any car as you are going to "make it fit"

Jonsblckhwk · Post by **Jonsblckhwk** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 2:18 pm

i would be interested if it would give me a shorter throw for the shifter but i will be using th AE101 tranny so i gues im SOL