Dang Straight

[takza]

As a devotee of THE GREAT PUMPKIN...I BELIEVE you are all full of beans...or something.

ALL bow to the GREAT PUMPKIN....or he will SITITH ON YOU.


TREMBLE in FEAR................you knaves


Or was it the Halibut?

...........................................

At the least I'd have to say...that the "part" of the human mind that is involved with "religious ideas" (and we all have these ideas to some extent..some call it "magical thinking") is a rather strange part....and the cause of much human suffering and conflict. Now STOP that!

[takza]

A lot of major religions have had a rebirth of fundamental Christianity.

Seems to me that the "worse" things get...the more people turn to "faith-based" solutions for problems...an easy way NOT to have to think about rational solutions? The "ideologues" pushing fundamentalism tell them how to think...if that's what you want to call it.

It's not that I haven't "practiced" or studied various religions....I have at times....so I know there is some difference between a rational approach and a "faith-based" one...though some would claim a "faith-based" way is a rational approach.

Fundamentalism "preys" on the less rationally endowed among us?

Tazka.

Do you think things are getting worse for me? Do you think I don't think rationally? Do you think that some fundamentalist preacher is preying on me?

Am I misinterpreting your remarks? Am I being overly sensitive? If I am interpreting you right, then you really don't know me. If I am misinterpreting you, I apologize.

I' was probably keying off what you said...doesn't mean it's directed at you personally though.

I don't see much difference between islamic and christian fundamentalists. I think the planet is at a point where the last thing it needs is more crazy humans...time to get rational?

[keith]

I think that we may have a different definition of religious fundamentalism. To me, its getting back to that personal relationship with God. It does not include allowing some preacher to set my moral compass for me, I will set it for myself. I will be affected by others, as we all are.

Within all religions, there are the zealots. Right now, the big difference that I see between our nation, and most "Christian" nations, is that we keep our zealots under wraps and we don't allow them to have any significant affect on our policies, foreign and domestic. In the "Muslim" countries, the zealots do have a significant affect on their policies.

[takza]

Within all religions, there are the zealots. Right now, the big difference that I see between our nation, and most "Christian" nations, is that we keep our zealots under wraps and we don't allow them to have any significant affect on our policies, foreign and domestic. In the "Muslim" countries, the zealots do have a significant affect on their policies.

Unfortunately...I have a different opinion. In the US we currently have and have had "religious zealots" in positions of power to some extent. Neocons...AIPAC? Affecting foreign and domestic policy. The US is having issues with separation of church and state. If your main news source is the MSM...you might not know this. Probably one of the strongest influences on the Muslim world are the US and Israel? The muslim zealots just went around their countries political processes. We agree to disagree?

[keith]

What's MSM?

[ARCHINSTL]

What's MSM?

Main Stream Media, I'd venture...
Or - it could be some sort of an acronym for the company that operates the black helicopters for the Guvmint (both admins, mind).
Tom M.

[Snax]

Unfortunately...I have a different opinion. In the US we currently have and have had "religious zealots" in positions of power to some extent. Neocons...AIPAC? Affecting foreign and domestic policy. The US is having issues with separation of church and state. . .

While I am the last person to defend neoCons, I would disagree with that characterization. Essentially the neoCons have effectively hijacked the Republican party by selling the religious right a bill of goods, with profits being their real motivation.

With that in mind, I'd argue that neoCons do not in fact represent the mainstream Republican agenda, and likewise, the fundamentalist agenda. It's all smoke and mirrors to win votes, and hopefully the real Republicans are waking up enough to start taking their party back.

Similarly, Progressive Democrats are on the warpath against the Democratic Party status quo.

No matter which way you look at it however, there are extremists on the other side threatening your ideals. The trick is to never let extremists win on either side.

[takza]

While I am the last person to defend neoCons, I would disagree with that characterization. Essentially the neoCons have effectively hijacked the Republican party by selling the religious right a bill of goods, with profits being their real motivation..

I think the real motivation of APAIC/neocons is mostly Israel's power and survival...for a country that has a doubtful right to be where it is. They have partially high jacked US foreign and domestic policies. They seem to represent the Lukid party in Israel who are now essentially practicing apartheid. Gaza is the new Warsaw ghetto?

When the US supports Israel and then sets itself up repeat Israel's mistakes on a grand scale...some thing's not right.

Realities?

* US likely in a recession now

* US up to it's neck in debt (China, etc)...same with the avg citizen?

* the cold war has been restarted with Russia...other "fronts" underway...Africa...Pakistan...Middle East....the endless "war on terror"...war on drugs and a few other things....etc.

* peak oil

* global warming

* malfunctioning US govt and election process

People might not have real problems yet due to the deficit/war spending propping up the economy so far...but you might want to look ahead a little? Your kids and grandkids are going to be the one's inheriting this future? The piper will be paid eventually....sooner than you think?

[ARCHINSTL]

A suggestion - and not writing as a Moderator...

An exchange on similar subjects to these, vis-a-vis religio/politico views, occurred on another Forum of which I was a member a few years ago. It was in its Off-Topic section as well.
While the section was proper, as it did not deal with "things cycling," what happened was that some personal antipathy carried over into other cycling-related topics. This was unfortunate, of course, and led to the resignation of a number of members who were worthwhile contributors, whether to the Technical sections, the Racing sections, or the General sections.
I would not like to see that happen here.

My personal view of an Off-Topic section in a generally technically-related Forum is that it should avoid discussions of personal beliefs, particularly of a political / religious / geopolitical nature. Kind of like sitting down at the Thanksiving table with relatives you see but once a year; you only talk about "things family."

Several of my toes have felt stepped-upon recently (won't reveal whether the right or left foot...*), and I have refrained from expressing rebuttals. I am a fervent believer in Freedom of Speech (a neo-ACLU person), but somehow I do not think our little Club is the right venue for expressing views on personal beliefs (except those on oil-change intervals and Seafoam and the like).

There!
And I do not feel this is a "If you can't stand the heat..." situation.
Don't beat on me with too rough of a cudgel!
Tom M.
* or the toe in Rome, Jerusalem, or Mecca, et al...(EDIT)

[takza]

I agree. I'll shut up while I'm still behind. It'll all probably come out in the wash...eventually.

But I would like to talk about women. I like women with big.................

[ARCHINSTL]

But I would like to talk about women. I like women with big.................

Watch it !

Remember, we banned HIM in '06 - wonder if he ever learned how to drive a stick ? ? ?
Tom M.

[takza]

I meant FEET.....

[Petros]

This "neocon" nonsense is a myth. It is the left's "boogie man" yet there is no such thing, everyone I have asked for a definision has given me very different answers as to what it is. It is political BS, a fabrication.

Yes we do have a religious right, and I do not care for most of them either even if I sympathize with them, but they have always been a part of our politics. From the very beginning of this country they have been a big force that all candidates have tried to woo.

The new comers are the extrema political left, such Moveon.org and mediamatter and so fourth, who are constantly attacking the Right and the traditions and institutions of this country. Demonizing the faithful, our churches, our charities, the conservative office holders, our law enforcement, our military and national security, and so forth.

Takza, it is so tragic that you have bought into so many myths. For example you wrote:


Realities?

* US likely in a recession now

False. There is a definition of what a a recession is, and WE ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE, most of the economy is in excellent shape and 82 percent of Americans recently stated they were VERY satisfied with their situation. So Takza either your have been fooled by the left, or you are simply ignorant of what a recession is. It is true a few states have suffered real estate price corrections from and overpriced market due to risking lending and speculation, but most of the county is doing well and our overall unemployment rate is stll very low. Lower than it was during Clinton, Reagan and certainly Carter eras.

* US up to it's neck in debt (China, etc)...same with the avg citizen?

This is not as bad as a percentage of our GDP as it has been in the past, but it is a problem. It grows under either party, but it ALWAYS grows faster with the Democrat party in congress (it is congress who actually controls the spending). If either party in congress would control their spending habits (mostly to support their favorite special interest group) we would all be better off. The reason the value of our dollar went down (and the price of oil went up) which occurred since the Democrat Party took over, and incresed our dept. When the value of the US dollar goes down the price of oil goes up because oil is priced in dollars, it has not changed as much relative to other currencies.

* the cold war has been restarted with Russia...other "fronts" underway...Africa...Pakistan...Middle East....the endless "war on terror"...war on drugs and a few other things....etc.

I do not know anything about a new cold war, but Russia is the one that is selling nuke materials to terrorist supporting countries. As for the rest, civilized and prosperous countries have always been threatened by barbarians since the dawn of recorded history. There is nothing new here. and it is quite real.

* peak oil

Another myth. This lie keeps resurfacing about every 20 years or so for the last 100. There are NO FACTS to support this lie, there are more known reserves now than ever in history, the problem is not supply or even technological but political. it is only the Marxist left that wants to force thier agenda on you that is pushing this nonesence.

* global warming

As far as human caused global warming, it is another lie by the Marxist left to force their agenda on free and prosperous countries. Again there are NO FACTS that support this mindlessness. The warmest year on record in teh last 20 years was 1996, 11 years ago! The warmest year in the last 100 was 1929. The earth has always had warming and cooling, it never had anything to do with humans. Takza I am afraid YOU have become one of the lefts "useful idiots" to push their Marxist agenda. What a shame, you otherwise show so much promise.

* malfunctioning US govt and election process

Not as bad as you think, butthe problem with the government is becuse MOST voters do not know who they are voting for, and how their candidates subvert the constitutional function of government to push their crooked agendas. IF voters knew who they were voting for, I mean really knew what the candidates espouse and want to accomplish, the government would be better. Not any conspiracy nonsense, but by killing innovation, taxing and regulating us to death, killing incentive and prosperity.

As far as elections go, I had taken interest in this when our last major election in this state ended up in court. The republican candidate won, and won the recount, but on the third count (paid for the the Democrat party) their candidate won with some magically appearing new ballots (that a leftist judge allowed into the RE-count) and the democrat won by 117 votes (out of 6 million cast). I had volunteered to be an official poll watcher that year. ALMOST all of the criminal activity was on the part of the political left, some have even went to jail. Yet we still have a democrat Governor.

*People might not have real problems yet due to the deficit/war spending propping up the economy so far...but you might want to look ahead a little?

Another stupid myth. All of denfence spending, including foreign aid and retirment pay for retired millitary is less than 19 percent of the federal budget. Yes it has been lower in the past, but it has also been much higher too. over 70 percent of government spending is taking money from those who earn it legally and honest, and giving it those who have NOT. This is called theft under color of authority. At least defense spending is required by the Constitution. Wealth transfer in not provided for in the Constitution. This is not a matter of what you want, it is just a matter of what is allowed by law. Redistribution of wealth through taxation and giveaways is not.

[Don Jorgensen]

And the great all knowing "Karnak" raised the sealed envelove to his forehead and stated
O'Reiley, Rush Limbaugh, Petros

[ARCHINSTL]

A suggestion - and not writing as a Moderator...

An exchange on similar subjects to these, vis-a-vis religio/politico views, occurred on another Forum of which I was a member a few years ago. It was in its Off-Topic section as well.
While the section was proper, as it did not deal with "things cycling," what happened was that some personal antipathy carried over into other cycling-related topics. This was unfortunate, of course, and led to the resignation of a number of members who were worthwhile contributors, whether to the Technical sections, the Racing sections, or the General sections.
I would not like to see that happen here.

My personal view of an Off-Topic section in a generally technically-related Forum is that it should avoid discussions of personal beliefs, particularly of a political / religious / geopolitical nature. Kind of like sitting down at the Thanksiving table with relatives you see but once a year; you only talk about "things family."

Several of my toes have felt stepped-upon recently (won't reveal whether the right or left foot...*), and I have refrained from expressing rebuttals. I am a fervent believer in Freedom of Speech (a neo-ACLU person), but somehow I do not think our little Club is the right venue for expressing views on personal beliefs (except those on oil-change intervals and Seafoam and the like).

There!
And I do not feel this is a "If you can't stand the heat..." situation.
Don't beat on me with too rough of a cudgel!
Tom M.
* or the toe in Rome, Jerusalem, or Mecca, et al...(EDIT)

To reiterate...