Air conditioning

83TercelSR5 · Post by **83TercelSR5** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:45 pm

My 83 tercel has AC but it is pretty much not working at all. Today I turned it on and it seemed to blow cold for about 5 seconds and then just blew hot. I'm thinking about using one of those recharge kits to replace the gasses. Has anyone used those with any luck? Also is there anything in particular I should check first to make sure its not some other problem? Thanks.

neonsport · Post by **neonsport** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:12 pm

It sounds like you're low on refrigerant, but you could also have a bad expansion valve. If you're going to use an R134a recharge kit, you need to make sure the system has already been converted. If it has, recharging is fairly simple, just use R134a without oil. Conversions generally use ester oil, and the PAG oil that comes in cans of 134 is incompatible with ester.

If the system hasn't been converted, one of the retrofit kits may or may not do a good job. R134a has smaller molecules, and will leak easily from a lot of older systems. You may get lucky; I used a kit I bought on clearance at Wal-Mart for $16 on my wife's 1991 Geo Metro convertible, and it blew exceptionally cold for almost 2 years.

If you are going to do a conversion, you have to evacuate the old refrigerant from the system before you charge it with R134a. If you don't, and you still have R12 in the system, you'll get some interesting side effects (like 110+ degree air out of the vents... just before compressor lockup).

I'm about to do a complete rebuild/retrofit on the system in my 1986 Tercel. I already have a remanufactured compressor, and new hoses, expansion valve, and drier. A new condenser and evaporator core should arrive the first of the week. Everything but the hard lines under the hood will be new, so it should show what R134 in a Tercel is capable of, temperature-wise. Flushing the hard lines will be easy, so there'll be no original oil in the system at all. This will allow a PAG oil charge, which should be optimal.

I've been driving the Tercel, with no a/c, for 7 and a half years in Arkansas. I'm really looking forward to cold air.

keith · Post by **keith** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:06 am

We had a hardline leak on ours. Replaced the hard line and the low pressure flex hose to the compressor with an extra long flex hose. No hard lines available. We used a conversion kit and it has worked good ever since.

83TercelSR5 · Post by **83TercelSR5** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:11 pm

Thanks guys, How do I know if the system has been converted? Also if it hasn't been converted how do I flush the old refrigerant out?

neonsport · Post by **neonsport** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:56 pm

If the system has been professionally converted, it should have a conversion sticker under the hood. If it was an amateur conversion, the sticker will probably be absent, but there should be R134a fittings screwed over the original R12 fittings.

As far as flushing the system goes, it depends how far you want to go. The best results come from pulling the compressor, draining the oil from it, then flusinhing the rest of the system with a proper solvent (liquid brake cleaner works well for this if you don't have a flush machine) to remove any traces of the old oil. You then fill the compressor with the new oil, reinstall it with new o-rings, install a new drier, pull a vacuum on the system, and charge with R134a.

BTW, although it's a real PITA, you really should go ahead and replace the expansion valve while you're at it. Toyota doubled the price on the valve in the last year, but you can still get an OEM Aisan expansion valve for around $30 online.

You can simply evacuate the system and use one of the $35 conversion kits. They include 3 cans of R134a, a can of Ester oil, fittings, and a recharge hose. Results vary when using this method, but it is a cheap way of finding the weak spots in your system so you'll know what really needs replacing.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:38 am

leaks in the system are usually accompanied by lots of oil in the surrounding area. if your lucky it will be easy to tell (e.g. right at a connection)

the recharge kit at wal mart is actually propane, not what i would want in my A/C system, but its your call.

neonsport · Post by **neonsport** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:58 am

Mac wrote:leaks in the system are usually accompanied by lots of oil in the surrounding area. if your lucky it will be easy to tell (e.g. right at a connection)

the recharge kit at wal mart is actually propane, not what i would want in my A/C system, but its your call.

I don't know what the Wal-Mart is selling where you are, but I wouldn't steer someone toward one of the propane or butane kits. The kit I'm talking about has 3 cans of Interdynamics R134a, and an oil charge that contains 8.5 oz of ester oil and 3 oz of R134a. I'm not guessing here, I'm reading the cans while I'm typing this.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:08 pm

Why do you think propane is so bad? Have you ever wondered why campers have propane tanks attached to them? Its not just for the heater and stove you know.... And it actually works quite well.

Guess what? My AC blew up today. Not quite a blow-the-hood-off experience, but the tee on the accumulator cracked.

Sitting outside of Autozone after grabbing the parts for a buddies car (I had come to rescue him and fix his car, we were eating our lunch before we headed out) we had the A/C on. Nice and icey-cold as usual........ Then..... Warm. Hot.... What the... (vocalizing) "Why did the A/C stop working?" and 2 seconds later - (POP! HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSS) and a huge cloud of white smoke billowing from my hood. Friend- "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!?" Me- "GET OUT NOW!" as I can only think one thing- My baby is on fire. Well, engine off and we bail out and barrel towards the store. Turn back around, still smoking, but not as bad. We watched for a minute, me ready to grab a fire extinguisher any second. Well, the smoke lessened. I went up and smelled- Not motor oil, and not coolant. Certainly not wiper fluid either...... What the hell is going on? Crack the hood. Red fluid everywhere.... Wait.... Nothing in my car is red.... I trace it back to- the A/C accumulator. It blew out. Literally. All of the oil charge all over the exhaust manifold. I'm lucky it had been off and then just idling, considering we came off of a 90mph highway run (people move fast on I-25 and I like to keep up.) so it could very well have blown out onto a 4k RPM near-WOT manifold.

Yay! (tears of sarcasm)

neonsport · Post by **neonsport** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:01 pm

When you resurrect your a/c system, check to make sure the condenser fan is working. That's what blew the pressure valve on the a/c in my first Tercel, back in 1993.

As far as using propane or butane, I won't use either as a refrigerant because of the real possibility of catastrophic fire inside the car or out. Ammonia makes one of the best refrigerants of all, but it'll kill you if it vents inside the car. Even gasoline is a great refrigerant.

As far as propane being used as a refrigerant in campers, I've dealt with dozens of campers through the years, and have never seen one with anything other than a conventional sealed a/c system, either ducted, side, or roof mounted, using conventional refrigerant. A good friend's family owned a huge RV dealership (actually 2 of them), and I learned quite a bit about the ins and outs of them.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:08 am

Refridgerators... The A/C is its own unit... I meant the fridge and freezer.... Whats your point? If a gas hose gets a pin-prick in it and hits the manifold, fire will happen. Things happen you know. (shrug) Also, if you're driving and it fails, its very likely the propane will just flow away in the airstream. And if its in the car, you'll notice it before the level gets dangerous I'm sure. Unless it just blows out the side of the evaporator. Both 134a and 12 are flammable last I knew.

neonsport · Post by **neonsport** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:39 pm

You might want to do a little research on how a propane refrigerator works. Propane isn't used as the refrigerant in them, it fuels a burner.

pantah · Post by **pantah** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:55 pm

neonsport wrote:You might want to do a little research on how a propane refrigerator works. Propane isn't used as the refrigerant in them, it fuels a burner.

Here in Panama 18 people died in a bus fire caused by the use of flammable refrigerant used in the a/c. Not a good idea!

gatemaster · Post by **gatemaster** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:15 am

I found a leak in my system it was the little screw in valve of the high pressure port by the dryer. After replacing the valve I filled the system with new refrigerant but was a little short. The next day after buying another can of refrigerant I started the car and turned on the ac which still worked so no leaks. I turned the ac off untill the car warmed up so it would idle better. then I connected the guage and new can of refrigerant to the suction port on the compressor, but before I opened the valve I saw that there was way too much pressure on the guage so I turned on the ac and the air came out warm. With the fan on high the electric clutch wouldn't engage. with the fan on a lower setting the ac would come on and off every few seconds. but the air still came out warm. With the ac engaging and dis engaging intermittintly, I let pressure escape from the high pressure port by the dryer untill the pressure on the guage at the suction port came back to normal range. then the ac would stay on all the time but the air was warm.

Here is my question to you guys before I go buy a new compressor. Is it possible that there is an internal leak in the compressor that allows high pressure to leak into the low pressure or suction area of the compressor causing a high pressure reading on the suction port?

It is the only explanation I can think of but I do not know much about troubleshooting ac systems.

neonsport · Post by **neonsport** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:24 am

Sounds like a bad expansion valve to me.

gatemaster · Post by **gatemaster** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:31 am

Yesterday I found a leak in my ac system it was the valve that screws into the high pressure port by the dryer. After replacement I started to refill the system but ran short of refrigerant. The ac felt pretty cold but not enought and there were still bubbles showing in the view glass. the next day after aquiring a new can of refrigerant I started the car and the ac still worked the same. I turned the ac off untill the car warmed up and would idle better. I attached the guage with new can of coolant and noticed that the pressure reading was way too high. I hadn't opened the valve yet. So I turned on the ac to high but the electric clutch didn't engage. I turned the fan to a lower setting and then the system would go on and off intermittently every few seconds. I let pressure out of the high pressure port by the dryer untill the reading on the guage came down to a normal range. The ac then stayed on but the air was warm.

The only thing that makes sense to me is that there must be an internal leak in the compressor allowing high pressure to get into the low pressure or suction area of the compressor.
Before I go buy another compressor I was wanting to know what you guys think might be causing the problem.