Choosing an oil filter...use only the best?

takza · Post by **takza** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:18 pm

Someone fairly recently mentioned using a Mustang filter on the 3AC engine. Since I had a new one left from another car...I went ahead and tried it.

It fits OK as far as the body of it. The sealing ring misses the machined land on the block by maybe 1/16" on the outside...but seems to seal OK.

The Mustang filter I used is a Pure 1...30001. It is probably larger than a typical Mustang filter though.

I have been using the Pure 1 PL22821...which is made for the Tercel.

I bought a NAPA Gold 1394 in case the Mustang type didn't fit. It is probably the typical Tercel filter size? A very small filter.

Since the large Mustang filter fits and costs the same as the Tercel Pure 1...I'll probably start using these.

The advantage is much larger filter area and extra capacity for oil cooling. The Pure 1 filter filters down to 5 microns (?), but has been criticised for possibly being too restrictive and causing the bypass to open too often. Using this larger filter on the 3AC should solve any problems of this kind. Might be overkill...but what the hey.

Filter study:

http://www.corolland.com/oil-filters.html

"I just wanted to pass on that a larger oil filter can be used on 88-97 Corollas. The standard purolator filter is L14476 or PL14476, but the filter used in earlier 4a engines (and other Toyota engines) is larger and still works, the number is L/PL22821. This design is 1.01" taller and 0.46" wider, internally the relief valve opens a couple psi lower. I don't know what (if any) difference there is in filter area, but it seems to me there should be a notable increase. I've been using the larger filter for about the last 75,000 miles to no ill effect in a 1993 4afe Corolla with about 250,000 miles on it."

Here they are:

On the left...NAPA GOLD for the 3AC...middle...PureOne for the 3AC....right....PL30001 for Mustang...I use this one...no drainback....costs the same as for the middle one. Use the same filter on my truck...makes life a little easier.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:34 pm

I won't use anything other than the Pure1 for my Terc in terms of Terc-fit ones. Its by far the biggest I've found yet. And then I go so far as to stick several hunks of hard-drive magnets on it. I've found little mounds of fine metallic particles inside the case when I do this.

Here's a thought, and a funny one at that- get a remote mount kit and buy a filter pad for a 7.3L Powerstroke. Filter is maybe the size of a 1-litre soda bottle. Then again, it has 15 quarts to filter.

keith · Post by **keith** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:45 pm

The larger the filter, the longer it take oil pressure to build up. Some of that is dependent on the oil drain back seal in the oil filter and how long the engine has been shut down.

On a sealed, smog controlled engine, an oil filter has less to do than it used to. You don't get external contaminants. The only contaminants are from the oil itself and most of that occurs near the end (or well past) the oils service life. This is one reason filters have been getting smaller.

The filter that used to be recommended, and I still use is a 3416. All the books show a smaller filter now and I have used it on occasion. BTW, the best filter on the market costs less than $3. Its made by the same company that makes many high priced filters that have an excellent reputation, some mentioned here. Its the Supretech filter from Wally world. Who knew.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:54 pm

I pay maybe $3.20 for my filters. I'd rather play it safe.

Well, I do use oil that keeps a good surface protection after shutdown. Yay for moly! lol.

Our 20+ year old engines are hardly "modern" keith. No, they aren't a flat-head V-8 in a 42 Roadster, but they sure as heck are no 1NZ-FXE. Nor a VW Twin-charger. Or even a modern TDI. Or anything modern.
Heck, iron blocks for the most part went by the wayside some time ago. That alone has an effect.

keith, also consider a lot of us have enough miles that we likely suffer blowby to some degree larger than preferred, meaning more, pardon me, but "gunk" into the oil.

And again... Even the turbodiesels that will be rolling off the line next near this time will soot up the oil pretty rapidly. After all, the particulate filters are downstream of the piston. And that generation of diesels will be some of if not the most advanced production engines in the world to that point. And I'm not just talking the US models, though they will be taking some pretty clean steps due to new emissions laws.

So based on all of that- I'd say that the best setups would be with the filter pointing down, so the oil can't seep out by gravity, and also with a good flow-back valve.
If the filter is pointing down, how can it take longer to build pressure? After all, the oil is kind of stuck by gravity.

So maybe a cooling setup using a good remote setup with the filter pointing down and all the components reasonably low in relation to the stock filter fitting would be best. Thats not unrealistic in our cars considering how high up the engine sits.

keith · Post by **keith** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:56 pm

I wasn't talking about diesels. A little blowby will shorten the life of the oil, but it still doesn't affect the filter until the oil has reached the end of its shortened service life.

Moly does help protect the engine from wear at startup, but it doesn't do much for the oil at shutdown. You've been to bobistheoilguy haven't you? IMO, he is NOT the oil guy. He's selling stuff, some of which is very questionable, I would never use.

I haven't used moly in my oil in a long time, you must have a PeP Boys nearby, thats the only place I've ever seen it. Last time I used it was in my 55 Chevy. Oops, letting my age show.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:17 pm

Nope. There is a heavy dose of moly in Schaeffer's. http://www.schaefferoil.com/
Check them out. I've seen surface strength tests, film retaining test (turn the rig off, remove the oil "sump" and let sit for 30 minutes then do a load test), and temp breakdown test results for this stuff. Its amazing.

Who the heck is Bob?

Why would it help on shut-down? Did I say that?

Why wouldn't it effect it? You get carbon gook, gas and other lovely boil-down products of it, and excess heat.

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:54 am

keith wrote:The filter that used to be recommended, and I still use is a 3416. All the books show a smaller filter now and I have used it on occasion. BTW, the best filter on the market costs less than $3. Its made by the same company that makes many high priced filters that have an excellent reputation, some mentioned here. Its the Supretech filter from Wally world. Who knew.

Do you have a link for info on this filter's origins and quality?

The Pure 1 filters have a silicone anti-drainback valve...supposed to be high quality.

keith · Post by **keith** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:44 am

takza, I never expected anyone to ask this question, its been a couple of years since I saw the link. Basically, there are only a couple of filter makers out there, they mike filters under contract to customer specs. One of those company's makes all the high end filters, Pur 1, NAPA Gold, Mobil One, etc. There is a stamp on the base of the filter that identifies them, same stamp on the Supertech. The Supertech also has a silicone anti-drainback valve. I've been using them for about to years now, no problems.

Where I learned about this was on the Cartalk website (best site on the web, best show on radio). If you want a real treat, go to cartalk.com and do a search for "The Andy Letter". It will not be a waste of your time, I guarantee. They also have a forum somewhat like this one but not dedicated to any particular car.

Do not disturb me on Sat morn at 9:00 AM, that is when their radio show comes on our local PBS station. Listen once any you will be hooked. BTW, I have no affiliation with them, other than being registered on and visiting their web site daily, right after visiting here.

coltarms · Post by **coltarms** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:12 am

I have found that the best oils and filters are the properly changed ones. My personal preference for oil is Valvoline. This is based on the personal recommendations of an old friend of mine who was a mechanic for 30 years. He showed me how to tear down my 1st engine. When we got it open, whatever wasn't covered with sludge was covered with white waxy stuff (parrafin, I later discovered.) He pointed out to me that all that "stuff" isn't good, that it comes from crappy oil, and that that is why he only ever used Valvoline.

For filters, there are lots of writeups. Based on all I've read, I only use Wix Gold, K&N, or Mobil 1. I will use either of these dependant upon availability and price (never know what is in stock or what is on sale.)

Wix Gold is the OE manufacturer for Napa Gold line and many other OEM and high end performance companies and is one of the best on the market. Supposedly Mobil makes their own filters. They received high marks for the Mobil1 stuff. I don't know if K&N makes their own but the perform really well too. If I'm in a pinch I'll use a purolator Pure1 as it is the best of the garbage filters (Fram, etc.) A good magnet on the filter (especially those wrap around ones) is never a bad idea.

coltarms · Post by **coltarms** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 9:55 am

Further investigation has revealed that Mobil1 filters are made by Champion Labratories (no, not the spark plug guys.) Champion Labs provide filters for lots of people, but the Mobil1 design is unique, and very good. Also, Wix is owned by the Dana corp, but does still operate as Wix.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:41 am

Garbage filters? Ohhh.... Kay.... I've found them to work better than the VW MANN filters manufactured by MANN+Hummel GMBH.

Having seen the inside of a Mobil1 and a Pure1.... I really can't tell too much of a difference?
Are you mistaking a Purolator and a Pure1 filter? The Pure1 is the higher-performance of the 2.

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:42 am

i have used, k%n, trd, toyota, fram these all are good and work basically the same

now, purolator are crap, they dont work good the car smoked took the filter an put a trd and stopped smoking

coltarms · Post by **coltarms** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:45 pm

Garbage filters? Ohhh.... Kay.... I've found them to work better than the VW MANN filters manufactured by MANN+Hummel GMBH.

I use the term "garbage filters" for the stuff you find on every shelf at every K-mart and on every red-neck's bumper, namely Fram. Frams are manufactured by Allied-Signal and are/were notorious for filling up and bypassing instead of actually filtering. Also issues with bursting, filter media failure, and leaking. Also, there were issues where the internals between the different "performance levels" were identical, just a bigger shinier package. These issues were seen to be common to the OE manufacturer, and not just limited to the Fram brand.

Here is a link to a fairly good sized list of OE filter manufacturers:

http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/hmwp/Fa ... lters.html

Are you mistaking a Purolator and a Pure1 filter? The Pure1 is the higher-performance of the 2.

Pure1 is manufactured by Purolator. It is a great filter as far as it's build quality and it's filtration capabilities (hence the reason I use it as a standby,) but it's flow has been questioned. If an oil filter can't flow enough oil around/through the element, it bypasses and then it is no longer filtering.

Here is a great link to a guy who had way too much time on his hands.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html

I'm still waiting to hear the results of the Amsoil and K&N filters.

now, purolator are crap, they dont work good the car smoked took the filter an put a trd and stopped smoking

Weird, my Jeep HATED the Pure-1 filter I put on it. Oil got filthy FAST. Bypassing maybe?

coltarms · Post by **coltarms** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:05 pm

More sites about filters:

http://www.corolland.com/oil-filters.html

http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/oil_filter_test.html

http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:22 pm

I get clear oil longer with my Pure1 versus the FRAM option. The clearest the longest I've seen, by far, was a Toyota filter. Its a good deal longer than the FRAM, but no wider.

I like the Pure1 for its huge size. I can't imagine it'd underflow a filter 1/3 its size?

I know they are the same company. I was trying to emphasize the trim difference, not a brand difference.

I've heard the Amsoil standard filters are nothing special, but their ByPass system is said to be quite good.

I've seen examples of FRAM's where the internal media actually caved in and plugges passages. Joy. Also saw one blow out on a Dyno run on a Duramax. The thing split at the seams. heh.

http://www.fs2500.com/productinformation.htm
Thats one of the best bypass filters on the market. They are really only marketing to Turbodiesels right now, but I'd imagine we could stuff the stinker under our hood somewhere. lol.