OK - What Did I Fry ???

[ARCHINSTL]

I did a no-no this afternoon: I left the key in the ignition in the "On" position for probably an hour (I was turning the steering wheel to set the wheels for one last brake bleeding).

Upon attempting to start the car later, after noticing my gaffe, the car took an inordinate amount of time to start - I mean about 3-4 minutes or more of cranking. I was about to give up when it finally coughed and ran pretty poorly. After it warmed up, it was fine, and did not hesitate, or accelerate poorly, or die at stops, etc. Also no difference noticed at 60+ on the highway.

After sitting for about 3 hours (totally cold), the same thing happened. I looked in the carb throat, and it seemed like I could see no gas squirting with the manipulation of the throttle. I cranked some more (a lot more), and was a few seconds away from calling a tow truck, as I was about 25 miles from home. Then it caught again, and ran as poorly as earlier. When warm, it ran fine, again as before.

I just now tried to start it (sitting for only about an hour), and it started OK-ish, in that instead of within 2-3 seconds, it took about 5-6 seconds.

The OM and the FSM just advise "...don't do this..." as it will run down the battery and possibly hurt the ignition. The FSM, in the IG section for "Hard to start", advises one to: Reset timing, inspect coil, igniter, distributor, HT cables, plugs, and wiring.

Since it was so hard to cold start, I was actually thinking about the choke - but tapping the accelerator pedal sets the choke mechanically, and I would not think anything electrical would be involved.

If anyone else has done the same deed as I, I would certainly appreciate their input. I'm kinda leery about driving a good distance and getting stranded - particularly with the gkids in the car.
Thanks,
Tom M.
EDIT:
OK - it's now 4 hours later, and I went out again, as it is totally cold. The same reluctance to start occurred, although not quite as long as the first two times. It probably took a minute, with numerous cranking periods. After it wheezed and died a few times, it did settle down. I took it out around the neighborhood and when cold it acted just like it was running too lean (?) - choke not working. After it warmed up to the normal temperature, everything was fine again....still apprehensive about getting too far away from home...

[takza]

Think it is the "igniter" in the dist...guess there were problems with these early on.

[neonsport]

There's still an open recall for defective igniters in Tercels built through the 1985 model year. PM your vin, and I can run it through the system at work next week to see if yours was ever done.

[2wagons]

I had my igniter replaced once by the recall. If you need one, let me know, I have a couple of old distributors lying around- yours for the price of shipping and beer.

[ARCHINSTL]

2wagons - Thanks - I will let you know.
neonsport is checking to see if this is covered under the recall.

I actually haven't fiddled with it since my last post 0609 - was gkidsitting until today. I did notice that the pump lever from the choke linkage to the needle valve seems to be working pretty sluggishly on the carb - not that I checked it on this rebuilt carb, though - just compared to the OE one I replaced.
It still seems odd that it could be carb-related, as I left the ignition on too long, and the carb would be mechanically-operated (save for the choke heater and a couple of solenoids). And - the engine started just fine all week -before I left the key on.
Tom M.

[simon84]

That's interesting abvout the igniter recall. I replaced mine a few years ago. Can I check to see if it was ever done on recall and if not does Toyota owe me the cost of the replacement?

[ARCHINSTL]

I THOUGHT I'D ADD THIS POSTING BY Teddy FROM 2004 TO THIS THREAD, IN CASE SOMEONE ELSE HAS THIS PROBLEM I CAUSED LAST YEAR. IT WAS IN REPLY TO ArleneK ABOUT HARD STARTING/HOT STARTING.
Tom M.
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Actually, that starting issue sounds like it COULD be the ignition module (transistorized spark box) under your distributor cap.

The last three 83-87 Toyota Tercels I have fixed (with cranking but no start issue) had this problem.

Also possibly of interest to anyone here who LOVES their Tercel... if you have the integrated, solid state ignition (HEI style, where the coil, ignitor and associated parts are all internal to the distributor) the way to PREVENT the ignition module from dying is to not leave the ignition key in the "on" position, without the car running.

A month ago, I repaired another one of these cars with this issue... and the owner (John) admitted that he often turned the ignition switch to the "on" position, but DIDN'T start the car... and then left it that way, sometimes for hours.

The book specifies NOT to do this, for a reason... and that reason is, that in the "on" posistion, the transistors are force fed high current 12 volts by the ignition relay... but, if the car is not RUNNING (ie; plugs are not firing) eventually the coil will get hot (from continual charge and no discharge) and up to 7 joules of current will fall BACK on the transistors in that ignition module, the transistors go into high frequency oscillation while reversing a lot of current, and fail due to over temp and reversion.

So! Solution to the ignition module issue? Don't move the ignition switch to the "on" position unless ACTUALLY starting the car... move the key to "Accessory", instead. Neither of my Tercels (4 wheel drive wagons) have EVER had this problem, and I have now put a combined 450,000 miles on them.

Arlene, your starting issue SHOULD be easy to nail down... since you specified that it is exacerbated or worsened after the car gets warm.

This is LIKELY the ignition module or coil... it is doubtful that it is a fuel issue.

The OTHER possibility, since you mentioned the low idle speed/stalling issue, is a vacuum leak, maybe AT the distributor? (these cars use vacuum advance/retard lines on the dual pot distributor).

Although you have verified that there IS spark, I would bet that the spark is either a) weak, or b) timed incorrectly.

Fuel delivery is via a mechanical pump, right there at the end of the 3A-C motor, and basically, if the car starts SOMETIMES, and runs, it is doubtful that it's the pump. When these fail, the car won't start.

Hope that helped.

Teddy
In Seattle, WA