Idea Pool (3A-C Build-up)

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:41 am

Some ideas for the 84's orig engine. (kind of jumped into the idea.. cut and paste from Engine Guts in gallery... wanted a whole new topic)

Perhaps I can do a gasket-match porting job (neighbor did it on his 20 and 22R's) and potentially come up with a tube header? Provisions for EGR system? Is it really needed, especially if a Weber were installed? I know it may effect emissions, but if I were to install it back in the 84 in Ã¢â‚¬â„¢09, would it really matter? Same with the O2 sensor?
How could I open up the intake mannie? Is there a way? I'd like more uniform flow throughout the system, with minimal pumping loss.

Ok. Essentially, my thoughts thus far include, but are not limited to;
Somender Singh's Grooves
"Tap" the intake ports for better atomization??
Head and Block deck-job... Slight shave for better compression?
Rings
Overbore
Weber carbie
Exhaust header
Intake mannie
Gasket-match porting
Performance valve-train.... Double-springs?? Hotter cam??

Paradise Racing... Paradise Racing also has the Paradise Racing Power Pack for the Toyota 4AC engine!!! It includes a Weber 32/36 Carb Kit, Schneider Cam & Dual Valve Springs. It will provide a Dyno Proven 40hp and an improved power band up to 8,000 rpms!!!

Performance bearings (they are made)
Balance crank

If anyone has ANYTHING to contribute, please do so.
Also, this is not a guarantee'd project. I may wind up just selling the various parts, rebuilding for another Terc, or power-housing.... Still dunno.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:28 pm

Okay.........
I don't want a rolling bomb.
So what'd it take to get compression up to 9.5:1 or 10:1? I don't just mean in terms of shaving, but also cams or who-have-you. Anything will help. Idea's are always appreciated.
I'm looking at Grooving the squish-plane opposite the sparker, pointing to the sparker.

Anyone have some other ideas for the 3AC, 100-shots of nitrous and pouring a gallon of water down the barrels? I mean, lifting the head is soooo appealing.

takza · Post by **takza** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:59 am

Check out fuelecontips and mpgmike? He's done 5-6 engines so far? He ups the compression and does the grooves. Claims better torque and mileage.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:46 pm

The green areas are areas in the head and mannies.
Pic one is the Exhaust mannie cyl's 3 and 4.
Pic 2 is the head, intake and exhaust on cyl 4 and the exhaust on cyl 3. Ignore the pink-red, I need to re-outline it.
Pic 3 is the intake mannie cyl 4.

The exhaust mannie is actually pretty well-flowing, other than that flap, the massive bump that houses the screw support for it, and the bends on the 2nd and 3rd cylinders. Then the O2 sensor probe and maybe the last little bit of the EGR componant's tubes.

The best thing I can think of is to eliminate the last bit of the divider between either pairing of the cyls (help with the curve restriction), remove the flap assembly entirely (when it's down it diverts all of cyl 1&2's flow to the diffuser, aside from what the flow counters), grind the protrusion fully down and insert a plug into the screw-hole. If necessary, grind off the last bit of the plug, to facilitate better flow.
Then, plug both EGR ports, and block off the O2 sensor outlet.
This would likely be the best modding possible for the stock mannie. A little material could be ground down then blended, as it couldn't be cut all the way back, allowing more exhaust to cram out with less turbulence.

The intake is actually nearly protrusion free, aside from the last bit of either vacuum outlet. Its worst complaint is being restrictive in diameter. Again, material could be ground down then blended, as it'd be very difficult to grind around the corner. EGR outlet to be plugged.

Aside from custom mannies, that'd be about the best we could do for them.

On the head, again, grinding then blending would be about all we could do. There are some minor casting faults, but not much. Again, diameter is the most restrictive property. Well, and the violent curve, but thats not a fixable issue.

Might work on a less violent bend in the intake mannie if custom is done.

Have NO idea how much extra flow could be attained, but what can is what we should grab.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:58 pm

the great thing for us is we got the bulletproof A-series engine.

if you want more power just add revs, lol.

if your worried the bottom end cant take the power, use some stock 4A-GZE rods and ARP studs to keep it all together, you can go even further and use the stronger (stongest for that matter) 4A block that came in the AE101

might have to use a later model crank though that means you might have to make the tercel flywheel fit or find one that works.

takza · Post by **takza** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:13 am

I think mike basically does the grooves...one per cylinder...adds the lynes (lines) where the intake is accessible near the head...ups the compression to 10:1...matches the ports.

Gave me a quote for around $250 for an alum 4 cyl with 8 valves...includes a valve job.

IMO...if you mess with the O2...EGR....you will only reduce your mpg and carbon up the engine...unless you go with a Weber and set it up with smaller jets to lean it out.

On the other hand...the whole idea of the grooves and lines is to burn the fuel better...so who knows?

...could do the grooves yourself if careful and have the head milled some.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:22 am

Just got done roughing the outer edges on the intake manifold, and porting the first 2 inches of the exhaust. I noticed that the 2nd in cyl from one side or another... Think it was #3, maybe 2... Is nearly pinched tight. There is practically no flow space. Potential solution? Attempt to carefully cut out the last little bit of the divider between the 2 cyls. The other pair is alright.
Where that flap meets the bottom of the manifold, there is a significant ridge... Might create some turbulence when the flap is up/removed. It won't be so easy as to just remove the flap, as it has bearings and so on on either side of the shaft. Would require a seal on either side. As for the bottom ridge, It could potentially be smoothed down (if a long enough grinder is available) a little bit to reduce turbulence. If the flap is removed, then the bi-metal strip's retainer bolt's holding protrusion could be ground down, then a plug put in.

That would help the exhaust manifold, but not put it anywhere near a header.

I have been looking at header possibilities. With the stock intake man, most smoother (than stock) curves either touch or come very close to the intake. The issue then comes in of A) The 2 adjacent pipes interfering with each other, and B) the turbulence caused by jumping from rectangular oval to circular. The best solution for both is a taper that transfers from Rect-oval to round. Preferrably 1/8-1/4" larger diameter than stock gasket, though adapting the gasket might prove annoying. Even a stock gasket dimension one that smoothely transitions to a circular tube, and smoothely around corners, maintaining diameter will flow infinitly better than the stock mannie. I think the best looking option is just to run them into a 4-to-1 collector pointing down, then have the downtube re-worked to accomadate. I need to re-check how possible that is, but if it is, then it may be putting the header flange in the right place to put on a turbo. That is, supposing anyone wants to find one capable of supplying sufficient volume at roughly 3-4PSI boost.

When I ported the first inch of the intake, I got an average of 1/4 inch more diameter out of the holes. Least being on #1 at maybe 1/8 more, most being on #2 with maybe almost 1/2 more. I now need to find something that will reach a bit further back, though I wish I could angle in through the carb port and grind while being able to see what is going on. Involves tools beyond my budget unfortunatly.

Dunno how best to port the heads. I figure on just increasing the passage diameters, though I know there are better methods.

I'm thinking I may do all this head work and so on and throw the head and exhaust mannie on the 86 block in the running car. I'll likely throw the intake mannie on sooner, but don't expect much difference without the ported heads.

As for grooves and lynz... The lynz I know nothing about, other than he used essentially a massive tap tool.
The grooves... I'm worried about angles, depth, and maintaining consistancy. If I get the head decked or machined, I may have someone with better tools do it. Might. We'll see.

Does anyone think that a fully ported and grooved 3A-C could handle a Weber 38/38?

Another side-note...
PACESETTER
Ceramic Coated Steel Header - RWD 1.6L 4AC
$196 from http://www.performancedepot.com Are they really for the 4A-C? If so, my troubles are solved!!! Just found this going for the Weber site lol...

72C1095
ARMOR*Coat Hdr, 83-84 Toyota Corolla 1600
329.95

Thats according to Pacesetters site... I wonder...?

http://www.redlineweber.com/html/applic ... ice_32.htm

Back to the Weber issue... According to Redline, the 38 Synchronous offers no massive advantage over the 32/36 Progressive UNLESS coupled with things like headers, cams, exhaust, overbore, etc.
Well, Looking at the pic on that page, the carb my buddy has might be a 38. If thats the case, I need to know A) If Weber makes a kit to adapt, and B) If I'll have to get micro-jets to not bog the engine down constantly.
Considering I have already made steps towards a 2 inch exhaust, the exhasut part is down. Considering I am working on a ported manifold, and might have a header option, that is down. As for the cam, I don't know if I'll upgrade. If I do, I'll either go with the SVC cam or the Paradise Racing cam, coupled with dual-springs and such.
If I get really psycho, I'll go with a 4PSI boost setup or something lol.

So pretty much if I open her up in terms of porting, give her some grooves, throw even just a 32/36 on her, and maybe get a hotter cam, I could be looking at 80-90 horses?

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:34 am

There is a guy who did a Celica on the Indian site...might email him about the grooves....mpgmike will talk about the lynes/grooves, but he is pretty busy...apparently the lynes are pretty effective by themselves.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:30 pm

the tercel can take more than 4psi of boost, its a tough engine.

if you do go turbo, you can do what the aircooled VW guys do, they bolt a side draft webber onto the turbo intlet and then into de engine, works great, you won't be intercooled, but oh well.

probably want to get a TRD thermostat and rad cap if you do that though...

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:06 am

Chris,
I was forwarded your request for Weber carburetor parts and information from Redline Weber. We are a distributor of there products.
We carry the adaptor you will need to put your 38 DGAS syncronous on your 3AC Toyota motor. It has a cost of $35.00. The linkage kit costs $20.00. And the air cleaner is $16.67.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Regards,
Isaac
Performance Parts Warehouse
1-800-654-2778

Chris

I will need to check out back

I think we have had several special requests for similar kits and we
have ported or opened up but leave the finish porting open to final
assembler this adapter it is the same adapter as K740.

If we do not have any modified ones avalable its not that hard to port
or open up the adapter.

the 38 will be ideal in that location

were are you located in case I can hook you up with a local dealer or
specialist.

Other wise I will forward your requst to a dealer that does work with us
on special projects like this

2 e-mails from Weber regarding a 38/38 Synchronous.

As for the header, I'll be calling or e-mailing them asking if it is for a cross-flow head or a meshed manifold setup... If its meshed it may well actually be a 4AC. If it is, won't the 4A-C's mannies bolt straight to a 3AC? Aren't they actually the same part?

Gasoline Fumes · Post by **Gasoline Fumes** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:26 am

Typrus wrote:Dunno how best to port the heads. I figure on just increasing the passage diameters, though I know there are better methods.

I don't know much about porting either. But I do know that doing it incorrectly can actually make you lose HP. Which is why I was very conservative with the porting I did on my Suzuki engine. I didn't enlarge anything, just cleaned up the rough/sharp casting and machining marks. Basically doing the work that's too labor-intensive for the assembly line. Toyota probably chose the port sizes for good low-RPM power, going bigger will probably cost you on the low end. Unless you add TVIS.

If you want a big increase in flow, you need to work on the areas of the head that are the most restrictive. This is usually near the valves, not the part of the port near the manifolds. Enlarging the least restrictive areas will only lead to less port velocity and no increase in flow. Port velocity is important since the valves are only open for so long. If the air moves faster, more will go in before the valve closes. Ideally you'd have a few heads to experiment with and a flowbench to test them on to find out what works and what doesn't.

Some online articles:
http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.shtm
http://www.diyporting.com/valve_seat_issues.html
http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95518/

There was also a really good article in Grassroots Motorsports magazine a few years ago on DIY porting.

I bought a couple of carbide burrs for my Chinese/eBay die grinder here:
http://www.carbidebur.com/
Best prices I could find. I got a medium and small ball cutter. The small one turned out pretty much useless, it just wanted to drill little holes. And I wouldn't bother with the bits made for aluminum, I've heard they cut way too fast. I have the double-cut ferrous bits and they cut more than fast enough. And I had no problems with them clogging with aluminum either as long as they're lubed.

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:53 pm

hi everybody, recently i managed to reach 2nd oveall ponts in my autocross class, so i need more power to keep me there, so i was thinking if there is any gain in using the 3asu o 3ascv heads and cams against the normal 3ac i have one head of each and i have the dual ooutlet exhaust im doing some port job and a valve jobon my head and a little milling to get it as close to 10:1 as i can before going witha built engine