The 3SGTE came in both the Celica Alltrac (ST165, ST185, ST205) and the MR2 Turbo (SW20). The 3SGTE still is made and put in the Alltrac Caldina in Japan. I think the most recent version produces 260hp!!
It's true that no tercel would come close to handling the power of a 3SGTE. I guess it is always possible to attempt a swap of the Alltrac's drive train into a Tercel wagon, but personally I really don't think it would be worth it. It would be WAY too much custom work and expense.
Actually, I have not really looked at the dimenstions of the 3sgte drivetrain however, becasue they normally come in transversley mounted setup, it would have a hard time fitting due to the fact that the engine is several inches longer not to mention the length of the tranny. It has been done in late model tercels and it took alot of custom fabbing.
in normal configuration, the 3sgte with a modified sump will fit nicely under the hood, but the modifacations that are needed to get it there outweigh the benifits.
but as they saying goes...with enough money and interest, it can be done. however, like my car, it turns into a hobby a frustrations make the demise of such projects. I don't think we will ever see a 3sgte in an early model tercel.
I want to know where 20v went... Haven't seen him in a while...
This is a useful post.
Some frame/body strengthening tips- Rollcages are excellent for helping the torsion. Cross-supports are also helpful, like the kind that go from shock to shock/ strut to strut. Turning spot-welds into full-welds will help a lot. Takes a lot more to break a line of connection versus a few dots.
A combination of the three would make a beast in terms of torsion resistance.
If I remember right, in one of my discussions with 20v, he said he had custom BRONZE gears cut. Bronze is a lot weaker than steel. Why? He said to prevent a catestrophic blow-apart. The bronze would bend and shear before exploding/breaking off with massive force like steel componants.
He bent his frame before grenading the tranny. If you take it easy on the tranny, it might actually last a while. Just a thought. Also, if you think about it, steel from 24 years ago is a completely different beast from modern steel. Even to have steel gears cut would probably offer some better power handling. Though titanium or Chromium Molybdenum gears would make a killer tranny. BTW, don't forget the shafts/bearings, etc.
One suggestion I received was to use a 4Runner/4wd Truck tranny and transfer case. But if you are looking at a speed beast versus a formidable offroader, the extra weight and the need for more clearance to the ground would serve as a detriment. I wish it was as simple as using a Corolla GTS (AE86) tranny with some odd transfer case setup, but it isn't. In the case of our trannies, it is a full-time FWD that has a Full-time feed RWD shaft with a transfer case assigned a simple job- connect the driveshaft to the supply shaft/ disconnect the supply and drive shafts.
If you want an all-out sporty monster, I'd recommend the fitting of a Supra tranny to a Blacktop 4AGE and the conversion of the front end to an un-powered setup.
I'm sure you could find a way to transverse-mount the engine and tranny and use a Levin or something AWD tranny. Maybe you could look into using a Subaru SVX tranny. Maybe a WRX tranny. I dunno.
You might be able to find a way to make the power go out the front of a RWD tranny, but that would involvew either routing the power out the side, down at an angle, or making the power transfer down then out as in our trannies. If you really wanted to get creative, you could take our trans, cut it at the front diff, create a blocker with an output shaft with U-joint that went through to an IFS diff.
How about a RWD tranny that transfers the power down to a slim-lined distributor that splits the power front and back? Incorporate a locking central diff maybe?
You might weld a box-style frame to the undercarriage with spidering support networks to the floor and semi-frame?
I dunno... All speculation and wild fantasies.
Heck, I've considered putting a 7.3L Powerstroke diesel engine in a Terc and going to shows and performing torque-rolls (700 ft/lb torque might be able to lift a side off the ground perhaps?)
I might just have to design something...... After I write my 5 essays and the quiz I have due in 2 days.
RIP 10-07- 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed
RIP 04-05- 1986 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed
when you slam the door on the tercel the whole roof and side of the car flexes, how on earth do you expect it to take 200ftlbs of torque without problems?
at the very least I would mig weld ALL body seams on the tercel before doing a 20V turbo swap, along with bracing (upper and lower front braces, custom of course becasue there is no aftermarket support)
Ok. Idea. Simple, inespensive, likely effective.
Buy Angle-steel from Lowes. 6 footx1inchx1/8inch = $20.98 locally.
Weld angle-steel in between "frame" rails. Weld it slightly beyond the lower point, so that some may be welded in the middle. Form a simple H-brace with bars on either end forming a rectangle. Now, Bolt on either fiberglass or corrugated steel paneling to increase underbody aerodynamics. You just helped body strength sonsiderably at a cost of perhaps.... $147 locally to me (supposing you do the welds). Thats only for the angle-steel.. The Corru steel would be about... $50.34 locally to me.
I dunno if this is legal, if a race-inspection would approve, or what, but it would, if done right, stiffen the body significantly.
RIP 10-07- 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed
RIP 04-05- 1986 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed
as for this, yes you do need to put some reinforcing in. I've stated that many times. I did and it wasn't enough.
The difference between my car and the rest of the members (so i am aware at this point) is that i have a HB and everyone else has a waggon. Waggons have more room to strengthen, altho by themselves, frames are slightly weaker having more flimzy roof area. Some say waggons are stronger, but i assure you my door/roof doesn't flex when i close the door. Infact, i routinely put lifted the car from one corner, my car being so low (-2"), the entire car used to lift and peg itself on 2 if not one wheel + the jack. AFAIK that is a sturdy structure. Try finding cars that can do that these days and still open the door.
80-90 ftlbs of torque is all a stock drivetrain can handle, the frame (if you wanna call it that) can handle maybe 110. I bent it with 120ish...just enough to crack the seal on my sunroof.
if you are going to do an engine swap, a reinforcing structure, not might, but IS required.
JUst out of curiosity, has anyone even read thru this entire threadt?
I have (lol)
Well, also consider this 20v... You converted to 4wd. We came that way. We came able to support torsion from the rear under power... Albeit not much.
I dunno.. My roof flexes upward when I slam the door, but it also pops up and down when I bang my fist on it. I think the roof is just sheet metal...
I once jacked mine up by perhaps 20 inch on one wheel.. Was supported by the jack and the front drivers wheel.. I wound up leaving it like that for a day or so and in the meantime opened and properly closed every door.. Even the hatch and hood. That seems pretty sturdy to me.
I was recommended stitch-welding. Dunno how much of a help that is, but I very much doubt it could hurt. I bet welding in a 1/8inch thick, 3 inch wide steel plate under the headliner, wrapping down either side and along the roof would create a good bit of reinforcement.
If I can recommend anything... Don't leave your back seats down long if you have aftermarket power... I'm sure they provide a good bit of stiffening.
So how valid do you think that underbody frame idea would be 20v?
RIP 10-07- 1984 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed
RIP 04-05- 1986 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd Wagen 6 speed