CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

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dlb
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CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by dlb »

thumbnail_2021-04-20_16.27.411.jpg
I had a leaking axle seal so I went to remove the axle. It was a bastard and took a ton of effort, which I knew was a bad sign. It finally came out and to my great dread, the clip is no longer on the axle. I stuck my finger in and thought I felt it in there so I tried to grab it with curved needle nose pliers. Didn't work, and now I definitely don't feel it. I guess I'll drain the gear oil and see if it comes out with that but in the event my bad luck continues, any suggestions? I've never run into this before.
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Petros
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by Petros »

perhaps a prob tool with the magnetic tip. go from both sides (axle hole and drain plug). that car does not have a diff cover, like the tercel, that you can remove to inspect it, as i recall. you might roll the diff back and forth a bit to get it to fall out to the bottom of the housing, again use a magnetic probe to retrieve it. possibly try to flush it out with gallons of solvent through the axle hole, so it will wash out of the drain.

but I would not run it until you get it out.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
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dlb
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by dlb »

Got it! Well, my wife got it. I tried a magnet tool in both the axle hole and drain hole, and drained the gear oil and filtered it, no luck. My wife came home and I bitched about what a cluster**** this simple job had turned into, and she wanted to see. Right away she found one piece of the clip on part of the trans just below the axle hole, then she stuck the magnet in and found the rest of it. Pretty amazing since I had already spent at least 5 min with the magnet, poking around in there.

Got the new seal, axle, and gear oil in and took it for a test drive, all good now. What an ordeal that was. All's well that ends well though.
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by NWMO »

Good for you two David,

A helpmate is a huge blessing! It sounds like a nice dinner out is in order.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
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dlb
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by dlb »

I should note that this was a brand new axle I just put in a few weeks ago. My old axle had a torn boot and I was doing other front end work so I thought I'd replace the axle before it started clunking. The axle seal never leaked before so I didn't think to replace it then, but within a few days of the new axle being in it started leaking. I was already annoyed at having to do the same job all over again, and was REALLY annoyed when I couldn't get the joint out using any of the standard techniques -- it was really stuck in there, no matter how much I pried on it, tapped wedges in, rotated the axle bit by bit and tried to gradually work it out, etc. I knew it was an ominous sign but hoped for the best. The clip being faulty was my worst fear, and that's exactly what it was. I even had to buy a new tool to get the damn thing out, I got these:

https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Axle-Popper- ... B081FYRLPB

and here's a pic in case the link goes away:
61cmuXQHRNL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
Even with those, it took a ton of hammering before the axle slowly made it's way out.

The lesson I learned was: from now on I'm going to replace the seal along with the axle, every time.
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by Petros »

I had trouble with a clip like this once. there is no other option but to force it out and hope noting breaks off inside. I worked it in and out, hoping to get the clip to "seat" into its groove, and than was able to force it out. I do not recall if I replaced the axle or reinstalled it. I seem to recall replacing the clip off another junk axle, and putting a lot of grease on it, and also gears where the seal rides, before I installed it. lubricating the seal is a critically important step to prevent damage to the new seal.

as these cars age we do not have much choice about the quality of replacement parts we can buy. hopefully there will always be a supplier of these CV axles, otherwise we will be finding ways to rebuild the old ones as a DYI project.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by simon84 »

DLB, I think one of my recently installed CV axles is leaking. I've replaced tercel axles about 5 or 6 times now and this time was the worst for getting the new ones in. I had to pound on the end with a mallet a lot.
And in the past I've had one leak and slowly inch it's way out and shear off the end right at the clip. Pretty sure I got the clip out and there was the last piece of the shaft still in the diff. There is a dimple in the end of the shaft so when it sheared off, the piece inside the diff had a small hole in it. I was able to bend a little hook-like barb in a coat hanger and feed it into the hole. When I pulled back on it the bent part caught and lodged into it and then I gave it a mighty tug, it popped out of the trans.
For this current leak, I'm thinking I may have to pull the axle out and re-install. Or just inspect it and see if It is not all the way in. I'm not willing to repeat the situation with the end shearing off. I'm surprised at how much of a pain it has been with the most recent axles compared to the past. Not sure what's going on and if there's a better brand to get.
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by NWMO »

I pulled the flywheel off the parts car for a friend a couple of weeks ago and after having similar experiences with having to "tap" or "hammer" the new axles in (driver side both times), I noted that the parts car axles must be original, because a large screw driver and very slight pry was all it took.
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
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dlb
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by dlb »

Simon, that's interesting you had to really hammer your axles in. My problem axle went in fine, just a couple taps with a heavy hammer, like normal.

The axle removal forks I bought worked well, though they would work even better if the car was up on a stand. I didn't have a ton of room to swing the hammer under the car so it still took many attempts, with lots of repositioning the axle and forks, and many, many awkward hammer strikes. I hope you avoid a similar fate!

I should point out that this was not on a t4, it was my 91 corolla. I think Trakmotive was the axle brand. I tossed it (it was new but had other defects too -- slop in the outer joint, inner joint boot was badly misshapen once everything was back together so likely to fail prematurely) and put in a brand new Cardone one this time. I guess that's what I get for buying the cheapest axles available on rockauto, lol.
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by simon84 »

DLB
Yeah, I know you are not in the T4-world right now. My recent axles were Cardone from Rockauto. I'd be interested to hear how yours work out.
And I'll report back with my findings. I'm not actually certain that it's the axles until I jack it up and crawl around under there. I think I'll order some of those axle removal forks. I used to use an ice axe to remove them and that works great if they come out easily. Not good for the stubborn ones!
Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Petros
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by Petros »

an ice axe? that is funny. I have a collection of ice axes and ice tools, some go back 40+years, never occurred to me to try and use one to remove a CV axle. I find the "flat bar" type of pry bar used by carpenters in construction to work well. I have also used larger pry bars, but their length make using it under the car troublesome, so the short flat bars (about 16" long) works well. you can also hammer on them if necessary. a really large screw driver works well too, it can take some hammering and it makes a good pry bar.

that tool DLB bought looks interesting, but the limited space under a car on a jack stand would make that less than ideal. obviously it is assumed you would have the car on a lift to use a tool like that.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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dlb
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by dlb »

Petros wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:19 am a really large screw driver works well too, it can take some hammering and it makes a good pry bar.

that tool DLB bought looks interesting, but the limited space under a car on a jack stand would make that less than ideal. obviously it is assumed you would have the car on a lift to use a tool like that.
Yeah, I have always used a large screwdriver as a wedge and just tapped it in between the trans and inner axle joint. Just a few taps and they have always come out. I was pretty miffed at having to buy a specific tool for this job but you can bet I'm going to use it every time I need to remove a half shaft now, just to justify the dang cost of it!

It just occurred to me that I could have trimmed the handle ends of the new tool down so that they would work better in a "laying in my back on the gravel" working situation. Food for thought.
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by simon84 »

Petros, If you have old wooden handled mountaineering axes, those deserve to be on display. I have some old Stubai ice tools that might be worthy of a spot on the wall of my garage.

I got under the tercel this weekend and it was the cv axles that were not quite all the way in and one was leaking at the diff seal. Funny thing I noticed is that with the car up on blocks, I rotated the front wheels and that caused the transmission to wobble back and forth sideways about a quarter inch. The cv axles were so tight that they were pushing inwards on the transmission. I had noticed a wobble in the steering wheel but I thought it might have been a wheel out of balance. I got the wheel hubs off and then pounded on the outisde end of the shaft with a wooden mallet (I put the axle nut on so as to have a better target). After about 50 hard whacks, they went in about 1cm. I had already pounded on them to get them in originally. I've never had such a hard time with axles!

before hammering:
20210422_211340[1].jpg
After:
20210423_134414[1].jpg
Then I noticed that the wheel bearing on the right side had some play in it. So I'm going to replace that now. It was new with these new axles, so it only has about 200km (120Miles) on it. Very annoying! It must have suffered from the lateral vibration from the axle. I'm stunned that these axles have been such a pain and have actually wrecked a new wheel bearing. Live and learn, I guess.
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Driver: 87 Tercel SR5, white, 4ac, weber carb (aka the Tercedes)
Road Tripper:95 Mitsubishi Delica L400 2.8L Turbo Diesel
Motorbike: 94 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6
Project Car:Red 68 Plymouth Sport Fury III
Previous Tercel:Orange 84 Tercel 4wd (aka the pumpkin)
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Petros
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Re: CV axle came out but clip stuck in trans

Post by Petros »

I do not see how a bad cv axles would ruin a wheel bearing, I suppose it is possible. what I have done before was dmage a new bearing when pressing it in to the steering knuckle, it got slightly cocked and would not go in any furhter. I tapped down the high side and it went in the rest of the way, I thought it was okay. but that one ground it self up in only about 1000 miles or less. so I must have made the bearing race oval when it was slightly cocked. I used a tool with a mandrel meant to hammer it into place. it works good for driving bearings and seals out, but takes a very careful and steady hand to get a bearing hammered in straight. I have since bought an arbor press where everything is held square as it is driven, much faster and easier now. I can not believe how easy some jobs are now with the press, the kind that I had to fuss around with and often hurt myself.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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