Don't listen to them. Fixing your car yourself is satisfying and economical. The cost of repairing our 'old' cars ourselves will never add up to the cost of a new one. These cars are easier to repair than most vehicles I have ever worked on.
ditto on marlinh's comment. i used to battle my dad when i was younger on the topic. he always told me to save a bit more and buy something newer, or new if possible. as a 17-yr old, i obv never had 'new car' kind of money, and i usually did pretty well with the cars i bought. when they died, it was not due to their failure but to my poor (or total lack of) maintenance, so i probably would have killed new cars just as quick.
fast forward 15 years and he's still buying newer cars, and they keep breaking down and needing costly repairs, whereas my old junk has been more reliable, and cheaper and easier to fix myself. i can't guess how much my wife and i have saved ourselves over the years.
but probably more important is confronting such consumerist mentalities. the energy and resources that go into designing and making a new car are massive, compared to the minimal energy and resources used to keep older cars on the road. and anyone who believes that new cars get better mileage than older ones is delusional. the fact that my '92 civic VX gets almost 45 mpg—the same or better than new subcompacts and hybrids—is a testimony to this fact. certainly not all old cars get such good mileage but not all new cars do either. so automotive technology has changed but the fuel economy is still the same (at least since about the mid-80s). with this in mind, i would feel guilty buying something new and encouraging the auto industry to continue using more resources and energy when we've got tons of good cars on the road already that simply need to be maintained.
the 'stop fixing it and drive it till the wheels fall off' mentality really bothers me. that's wasteful as all hell, lazy, and for people who simply don't care about their stuff.
you make a very good point by saying that you are using fun money and not food money. wrenching has become a hobby for me too so i spend money on it but it's productive and i enjoy it. better than pissing it away on guitars and amps!
I've figured that a new car payment would run me $200-300 a month, where the Tercel was bought and paid for, and I can optionally spend money on it instead. I mean sure, if a car is not drivable it may need to dip into the "not so fun money" to get it going again.
It's funny, I thought the same thing to the tune of "By buying this car I'm saving it from the junkyard and basically helping the environment" even though I'm not an environmentalist.
Comparing my Regal as opposed to the Tercel, it is far more complex and cramped in the engine bay, and I am not sure I could do much myself on her and she's a 2003!
the 'stop fixing it and drive it till the wheels fall off' mentality really bothers me. that's wasteful as all hell, lazy, and for people who simply don't care about their stuff.
Yeah, he would just get it into running shape then keep driving and maintaining it until something bad happens. I want to fix up the inside so it doesn't look like crap!
Edit: I think he's partially worried I'll get all this money into it then something catastrophic will happen to the car.
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)
Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!
irowiki wrote:Edit: I think he's partially worried I'll get all this money into it then something catastrophic will happen to the car.
that's a legit concern but it's easy enough to investigate and be reasonably sure that a vehicle is sound and will not require any expensive repairs. besides, new cars are not immune to catastrophes either. the parents of my friend bought a new diesel jetta 5 or 10 years ago and were driving it down to mexico in the first month they bought it when the engine blew up. it was a huge headache to get the car repaired, find a place to stay while it was being worked on, and get the warranty stuff sorted out. and my dad's 2005 diesel jetta seems to have non-stop problems. it seems like every six months he's taking it to the VW shop, and it's always a $500 or $600 bill. i did some brake work on it for him and it was a stupid design, so needlessly complex.
i'll stop now. i could go on with my hatred for new crap, particularly VW stuff.
He doesn't understand how common the engine is (and how bulletproof it is) my main worry is the timing belt, transmission or clutch deciding to go out, all of which might be beyond my current level of wrenching
My buick purrs like a kitten and has had no problems since I bought it at 88k (117k now) besides replacing the ignition wiring harness. Well almost none, the transmission feels a bit funky lately.
Actually I take that back, she has an electronically controlled climate system which I love, and it even can change the temp of the passenger side. After I got the car, at one point it started blowing hot air out my side and cold air out the passenger side. After some research, it turns out that if the battery is disconnected, it needed the positive touched to the negative on the battery in order to get the gates to reset or something. I dread the day when something else happens to it.
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)
Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!
no joke, the timing belt is easy and not even an issue if it breaks on the 3a because it's not an interference engine. no harm would come if the belt actually snapped, you would just need to tow it home.
the clutch is a bigger job but actually quite easy on a little FWD like your first gen. the trans is so small and relatively light that you can remove it easily with a jack and have access to the clutch that way. i just did this on my wife's civic. much easier than the big, bulky 4wd transmissions.
replacing the trans would be the hardest thing since there aren't a lot of first gens around anymore, and most that i see are automatics, but as long as you change the gear oil, clean the metal off of the drain plug magnets, and drive it gently, there's no reason it shouldn't outlive you.
ever completely replacing the engine or the trans is far cheaper than a payment or two of a newer car. that is just ignorant talk. I like working on my own cars, I have to maintain a fleet of 5 older cars for myself, wife and two daughters. I spend less than $1500 a year total in repair costs on all of them, the average American pays an average of $9200 a year per car in maintenance costs!!! that would bankrupt me! Your average newer cars will cost most people about $600-800 in just a "routine" maintenance visit.
I just had to do another headgasket replacement, I decided to also replace the valve stem seals while I was at it, plus replaced oil, filters, spark plugs and antifreeze, total my cost was about $50. That was a $600 repair, but even so, that would have still been a bargain compared to newer cars, that eat more fuel, are less reliable, and cost more to repair, insure and register. Whenever someone says something like that to me, I say "I got the car for next to nothing, it costs me less than about $400 a year total in parts, tires, oil, etc. to keep running, and I get 30 mpg, tell me where I can do better than that?". they usually are shocked and realize the last repair they just spent $1000 for brakes or tires.
I get a lot of flack for driving old iron too.
When I get tired of hearing about it I just ask 2 questions:
How much was your last full service?
and
What kind of gas mileage do you get?
Then I say something stupid like "how can you even afford to drive that thing"?
If this isn't sufficient, you can pull out the big gun that everyone seems to forget about - DEPRECIATION! (often it is equal to the payments)
See and we didn't even have to ask them how much extra they pay for insurance or financing (zero/low interest is a myth, it's just been hidden in the price tag)
If all this has failed, comment on their really cool looking 19in tires and ask how much THEY are to replace.
WARNING - be ready to duck when using this approach as not everyone appreciates being told how stupid they are.
or they have conviced themselves that driving around in a flashy and costly newer car with the shinny 19 in wheels and very costly 45 series tires some how is necessary to impress people they likely do not even like. So they pay BIG time for their ego.
No attempts to break into my car to steal the radio, no one vandalizes it because it attracts attention in the parking lot, cops never pay attention becasue it does not look like it will go faster than the speed limit, and it will keep on running through rain and slush and snow that would make those 45 series 19 in tires feel like you are driving on greased road.
yes, I asked a neighbor who was a cop once why do many police hassle people in older cars, especially young people (like when I was in collage). He said it is not so much the age but condition, when people drive around a car that is in bad condition, lots of body damage or rust, and running badly, it usually indicates an attitude toward their respect for following the law. It is people who are driving beat up old cars that often have outstanding warrants, unpaid fines, etc.
Thanks, a lot you guys, when I was in collage I often drove my "project" cars, and I would get pulled over for really minor stupid stuff (license plate light, etc), and they would interrogate me like I was a suspect fleeing the scene of a crime, and this explains it. If they were clean and shinny and in good repair, no matter how old, I never had a problem. I even drove around a '62 Porsche and a '74 Mercedes that I bought cheap, and never got pulled over in them, only in my old Datsun, volvo or VW. I guess even a vintage Porsche or Mercedes has a certain amount of respect.
I understand the cops job is hard enough, but they should concentrate on finding criminals, not those poor people and collage students that can not afford anything better than a beater car.
Jarf wrote:Dlb and Petros have it nailed up tight.
I get a lot of flack for driving old iron too.
When I get tired of hearing about it I just ask 2 questions:
How much was your last full service?
and
What kind of gas mileage do you get?
Then I say something stupid like "how can you even afford to drive that thing"?
If this isn't sufficient, you can pull out the big gun that everyone seems to forget about - DEPRECIATION! (often it is equal to the payments)
See and we didn't even have to ask them how much extra they pay for insurance or financing (zero/low interest is a myth, it's just been hidden in the price tag)
If all this has failed, comment on their really cool looking 19in tires and ask how much THEY are to replace.
WARNING - be ready to duck when using this approach as not everyone appreciates being told how stupid they are.
Funny! But many stupid people are unable to grasp just how stupid they are. haha
Newer cars can be as much or more reliable as an old T4. Or they can be a huge never ending nightmare that has many repairs that each cost more than an old T4 costs us thru it's whole life. Just did a blower resistor on a 2000 bmw 323i. Was almost $350(cheap BMW repair) including the tow. It's transistorized and was bleeding voltage to the blower at rest, killing the battery. Just did a ABS module on an 08 Caravan. The dealer programming cost almost as much as the module! It isn't getting any simpler either. The T4 might be as sophisticated as a hammer, but how often do hammers break?
