Just spitballing ideas.

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LowBuckCanuck
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Just spitballing ideas.

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:28 pm

Recently, I was daydreaming about tercels, as one does if you have an issue like me :lol: and was dreaming up a sort of hardcore offroad tercel build, partially spawned by this guy I follow on instagram who is rwd BEAMS swapping a 4wd wagon. This involves cutting to fit the transmission and plenty of other fun stuff.

So with a sky is the limit mindset, what could one do to a tercel?

My list included:
-A 200+ HP 4 cylinder toyota engine
-A Subaru transmission from a WRX or something that could take the power (I won't claim to be an expert on Subarus, I'll bet fitment would be impossible)
-Modified Subaru front hubs that will mate with CVs from the transmission
-A solid rear axle with a limited slip differential, 5x100 bolt pattern to match the new front hubs
-Put all kinds of suspension under it, modify the front arms to something more modern, 4 link the rear axle?
-Build a frame over the unibody similar to how Jeep XJs are done (important so that the suspension has a stronger base to be mounted off of)
-Maybe cage the front and rear to stiffen those shock towers up?
-Probably a more heavy duty steering rack
-Clearance the back wheel arches, make a fibreglass wide body kit
-Fibreglass front fenders to clear the much wider front end and match the rear.
-Sweet method race wheels wrapped in BF Goodrich KO2s in 215/75r15 (I see this a lot with Crosstrek owners)
-Offroad bumpers, lights, winch, etc.

I'm pretty sure none of this would work, but it's fun to imagine.
A Subaru transmission would place the engine too far forward if you wanted the CVs to line up, right? Are there any other small, 4wd/Awd transmissions out there that could handle more power than a stock tercel 4wd transmission?

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Petros
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by Petros » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:02 pm

I have thought through the same ideas, what would I do to make the Trecel "ideal". partly it depends on what you want, adding a much larger engine and trans would add a lot of weight, which is not what I want for my ideal Tercel4wd.

with your changes, why not just buy a Subaru and than you an buy bolt on suspension and engine performance stuff? I would want to stay all (or mostly) toyota on my mods. I think there is an 4x4 toy older truck transmission that is simialr to ours, but larger. I saw one in an trans shop on a stand, it looked a lot like ther T4wd trans but bigger, I asked what it came out of and he said it was a toyota truck transmsision. I do not know what year, might be '80s or '90s (it was not a current model).

I like the 4age engine, and with a few mods to optimize for our use (including detuneing to increase low end torque) could be a great engine for this car and it will not have the fitment issue. If you are willing to cut and weld all the mounts and sheet metal, using a 2zz modern all aluminum 2.4 engine would be a good place to start, you can get a RAV4 4x4 trans to mate to it, but you would have to change the configuration to transverse engine and trans. I would also put a larger rear axle, the corolla GTS axle with LSD diff in it comes to mind. those are kind of rare now, but you could possibly build your own from a non LDS equipped rear axle, with new mounts, etc.

I have thought about making new front fenders out of fiber glass with more clearance for larger tires, seems there might be some here that would like some rust resistant front fenders too, so I can get some extra use out of the mold for it. the rears can just use some flairs, and than you cut out what is in the way. There are actually lots of Toyota suspension parts that can be put on use on our cars, with a bit of alterations.

Again, if you are willing to do some cutting and welding, why not just buy a full blown Subaru suspension with adjustable ride height? being able to adjust ride height from the driver's seat would be a great way to make it more versatile, you keep it at stock height for most driving, but for a river crossing or deep snow, you raise it way up from your seat. you would have cut out all of the mounts and weld in new ones. but for all that effort I do not see the reason to stay with the Tercel4wd, unless you are just building something to be different. being that creative will have its costs, both money, time and emotionally. for me, I know I would never likely finish something like that.

The best way to stiffen the chassis, to do it correctly, is to strip the whole body, mount it on a rack and stitch weld all the seams, and add stiffness to the strut towers and all the mounting points. you can also built in a roll cage around the passenger compartment is you intend to race it. but I would not want to ever put something I did that much work to in a place where I could roll it and wreck it.

I would also want to do a full custom interior, with leather seats (using the stock TErcel SR5 seats, rebuilt for better support and comfort). I would also want to find a way to cover all the plastic panels with something nicer. And add a lot of noise insulation. I have been meaning to find an extra drivers seat, even if poor condition, to experiment on it with my idea of what a proper performance seat should look like for the TErcel4wd.

There are larger Toyota brakes that can be easy to up grade, as well as installing rear disks brakes with a simple adapter plate. But I think the key thing is to find a suitable transmission. if the stock transmission is cared for it will last a very long time, I do not know if that is true running two times the hp through it. it is possible to take it apart, have all the moving parts heat treated to improve strength, and than rebuilt it, but it would be more costly than adapting another stronger trans to fit (if we can find one).

A long time ago I made a list of all of the "fixes" the T4wd needed, I have done about half of them (brakes, engine mods, better seats), and find I want to take it further. fully built EFI 4age engine, LSD rear end, bigger brakes, adjust able ride height, leather seats, full instrument cluster and nicer sound system, custom paint, custom leather seats in front, full sound insulation. fiber glass fenders with flairs, fiberglass bumpers to save weight (and improve the looks), LED head lights with new housings.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:34 pm

Petros wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:02 pm
unless you are just building something to be different.
That quote sums it up. Again, this is all hypothetical, but could become a possibility as I progress through life.

Another idea I had was a Suzuki samurai transmission and t-case. That way you would gain a true 4-low.

As for subarus? Not a big fan myself. I would rather have a money pit of a tercel. :D

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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by The Professor » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:52 am

LowBuckCanuck wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:34 pm
As for subarus? Not a big fan myself. I would rather have a money pit of a tercel. :D
Boo, hiss!! :lol:
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door
1987.5 Subaru RX 3-door
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan

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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:54 pm

The Professor wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:52 am
LowBuckCanuck wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:34 pm
As for subarus? Not a big fan myself. I would rather have a money pit of a tercel. :D
Boo, hiss!! :lol:
I knew that would summon you the moment I posted it :lol:

teranfirbt
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by teranfirbt » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:53 am

That guy's 3SGE RWD conversion definitely gives me inspiration, I've been working on my own plan for a similar RWD build when i finally get around to exploding my transaxle... For the rear end there are plenty of options if you're ok with a little fab. The 2wd Toyota trucks from the 80s and early 90s are the same length as the Tercel axle, they would just need to be converted to 4 link. Ford Exploder 8.8 rear ends can be shortened to 56" which is only 1/2" wider than the Tercel and are good for like 500hp.
I've been debating how far I would want to go. W58 would put the shifter in a better spot than the J160 behind the 3sge and can handle about 300hp without issues. A turbo 4AGE would be a load of fun at 200hp or go whole hog and build a 3SGTE out to 300 or more.

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Petros
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by Petros » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:15 pm

I saw where someone managed to get a 4age up to 475 hp, I doubt it was reliable. he never found out, he corn cobbed the LSD rear end on his corolla GTS. Perhaps that would be a bit much for a Tercel4wd, but it is fun to imagine it.

the 20 valve 4age puts out 170 hp in stock form, easy to tweak that to above 200 and still be reliable. It is a lot of work to adapt it to the Tercel, Larry McGrath did it, ther is a thread on the topic. But that is still easier than what other engines have been proposed for the Tercel.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by atoyta » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:25 pm

Ideal would be 1985 toyota truck running gear with the 5spd trans. I don't know if mounting leaf spring brackets on the tercel would be a safe course due to the lack of a "real" frame. Samurai running gear would work also. The other concerns would be the trans hump in the car would have to be modified, length of the 22re & driveline lengths.

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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by Petros » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:09 pm

DO NOT use leaf springs: leaf springs are an obsolete way to hold an axle to the body, that is why most car companies have abandoned it. poor control. they tend to wind up in corners and than "unwrap", throwing the rear end around. they suck in every way, other than it is cheap. most modern trucks in fact use 4 bar link with panhard rod, best way for any live axles.

of course, IRS would be best, and there are a few appropriate sized IRS set ups that can be adapted to the Tercel4wd, but that would take a lot of cutting and welding, and you may end up with a very unbalanced monsters if you do not know how to match roll and spring rates front and rear, so it all works well together both on road, and off. But not sure it would be worth the effort.

somewhere on youtube is a short clip of a Tercel4wd body, clearly matered to what looks like a Toyota truck chassie, with lots of lift and larger tires. it likely had the 22r engine, and the 4wd truck drive train under it (you could see it under the body). I looked for it but could not find it. workable, but it would not be very economical, and rather heavy I suspect too.

Best thing for the rear suspention is to perhaps do some alterations to improve the travel, and perhaps use urethane bushigns, but overall, it is not a bad design for a live axle set up. It could also use an LSD, but that is more likely done if you can find a larger diff/axle to use for both the extra power, and to get more LSD options.

I would like to try one of those inexpensive kits to turn a regular open diff into a sort of limited slip set up. I know they are as good as a true LSD diff, but any extra taction to the rear wheels would be a big help on loose surfaces, and it is really cheap compared to doing an axle swap and installign a real LSD.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Abletobecain
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by Abletobecain » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:13 pm

There's a guy on the FB page that put a 2JZ and full driveline in a T4.
1977 BMW R100S 1WD ("Brunhilda"/Summer Fun)
2007 Tundra Limited Crewmax 4x4 ("Tetsuo Shima"/Hauler) SOLD :cry:
1983 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Charlie"/Daily Driver)
1987 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Sprocket"/Off-road-Camping)
1985 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Lucky"/Project)
1983 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Cadaver"/Parts Car)
1987 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Lil Red") SOLD :)

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BaileySims
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by BaileySims » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:51 pm

Abletobecain wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:13 pm
There's a guy on the FB page that put a 2JZ and full driveline in a T4.
Post links!
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Abletobecain
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by Abletobecain » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:00 pm

This is the link to his fb page.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1 ... ent_filter

He's got a video of it ripping. Idk if he has pics up or not.
1977 BMW R100S 1WD ("Brunhilda"/Summer Fun)
2007 Tundra Limited Crewmax 4x4 ("Tetsuo Shima"/Hauler) SOLD :cry:
1983 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Charlie"/Daily Driver)
1987 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Sprocket"/Off-road-Camping)
1985 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Lucky"/Project)
1983 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Cadaver"/Parts Car)
1987 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Lil Red") SOLD :)

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BaileySims
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by BaileySims » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:11 pm

Dang. Can't see much without an account. That rear end looks sweet though!
WAGON MAFIA.
Blood, sweat and beers.

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Abletobecain
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Re: Just spitballing ideas.

Post by Abletobecain » Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:15 pm

I couldn't see it either till I opened fb on my computer. I don't see the video right now on my phone but my phone doesn't like fb much.
1977 BMW R100S 1WD ("Brunhilda"/Summer Fun)
2007 Tundra Limited Crewmax 4x4 ("Tetsuo Shima"/Hauler) SOLD :cry:
1983 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Charlie"/Daily Driver)
1987 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Sprocket"/Off-road-Camping)
1985 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Lucky"/Project)
1983 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Cadaver"/Parts Car)
1987 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Lil Red") SOLD :)

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