Must have been a former owner.

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splatterdog
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Must have been a former owner.

Post by splatterdog » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:21 am

Had another driver coming my way in a newer SUV aim an ear to ear grin at me along with some aggressive clapping this weekend. Also got a thumbs up at the bait store an hour earlier.

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Petros
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by Petros » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:26 pm

seems these old funky econo boxes still have a lot of fans. when ever I drive into seattle with mine (which I try to avoid), I typical get people asking if I want to sell my daily driver.

I read an article about a guy who bought up all the spare parts, and manufacturing rights to the old stainless steel Delorm with idea of putting back into production, with various improvements (including a 300+ hp engine). there is a law exempting replica cars from current regulation, as long as production is limited to 300 cars a year. He has advanced orders for over 5000 cars. made me wonder if we could gather up as many T4wd non-runners that we can find and start a production line doing a ground up restoration on them, improving various issuse with them, and still be exempt from airbags, emissions, etc. the cheapest cars right now are about $20,000. A "zero miles" T4wd would be worth what? perhaps $12,000? a bit more? not sure if there is money to be made there. the Delorem reproduction is estimated to cost in excess of $100,000. but orders are still coming into the guy, and he has financial backing to get an assembly line going.

I should stop thinking about it, there will never be another car like the Tercel4wd. We will have to live with it.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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LowBuckCanuck
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My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:15 pm

Petros wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:26 pm
seems these old funky econo boxes still have a lot of fans. when ever I drive into seattle with mine (which I try to avoid), I typical get people asking if I want to sell my daily driver.

I read an article about a guy who bought up all the spare parts, and manufacturing rights to the old stainless steel Delorm with idea of putting back into production, with various improvements (including a 300+ hp engine). there is a law exempting replica cars from current regulation, as long as production is limited to 300 cars a year. He has advanced orders for over 5000 cars. made me wonder if we could gather up as many T4wd non-runners that we can find and start a production line doing a ground up restoration on them, improving various issuse with them, and still be exempt from airbags, emissions, etc. the cheapest cars right now are about $20,000. A "zero miles" T4wd would be worth what? perhaps $12,000? a bit more? not sure if there is money to be made there. the Delorem reproduction is estimated to cost in excess of $100,000. but orders are still coming into the guy, and he has financial backing to get an assembly line going.

I should stop thinking about it, there will never be another car like the Tercel4wd. We will have to live with it.
I've always had this dream of a one-off reproduction tercel constructed of carbon fibre and running a 200+ hp turbo A series engine under the hood. Until I become the co-creator of PayPal that will have to remain a dream.

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Mattel
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My tercel:: 1988 Corolla 4wd Wagon (AKA Corolla All-trac) 5speed, AC, Power Sunroof, Windows, Mirrors, Steering, Locking, Diff Lock, 14" Corolla SX Alloys with Silica Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, 210,000kms
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by Mattel » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:33 pm

Retromoding would be great though. I have the Australian version of a VW Vanagon T3 Westfalia. I saw how prices were heading in the USA especially for the syncro 4wds and bought one about a year ago. I've been *touches wood* very lucky with its reliability and have been offered more than I payed a few times for it from people in the street. But there are services in the USA like gowesty who will offer a remanufactured westy for around $80,000 (https://www.gowesty.com/vehicle-details.php?id=15) but these are fully rebuilt and to be honest it is a vehicle that has no peers for space/compactness and hipster points. But with the Tercel 4wd you could easily replace with a well maintained early Forester that would do the same job but tbh better in most departments (except rugged simplicity and reliability).
Previous: 83 Tercel SR5 4wd, 84 Tercel SR5 4wd
88 Corolla 4wd Wagon 5speed, All power options, Fact Sunroof, Diff Lock, 14" SX Alloys, Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, Tow Bar, 210,000kms

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Petros
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by Petros » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:18 pm

Not likely a Tercel4wd will ever command those kind of prices. I can not imagine who would spend $70k plus for a VW van, you can buy a much more modern used SUV for about half of that, get more power and reliability too.

Even if you could get $20,000-25,000 for a restored (and improved) Tercel4wd you could make money on it. but not at about $10k. not sure anyone would spend that much for a restored Tercel4wd, Subarus sell new for about $25k.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Petros
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by Petros » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:29 pm

LowBuckCanuck wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:15 pm
[I've always had this dream of a one-off reproduction tercel constructed of carbon fibre and running a 200+ hp turbo A series engine under the hood. Until I become the co-creator of PayPal that will have to remain a dream.
there are no production cars (and very few custom ones) with carbon fibre bodies. Hoods and fenders maybe. but why would you need to save weight (at that much cost!) if you had 200 hp?

There is much to be said for weigh savings, but it is a very light car as it is compared to modern "small" cars full of airbags, extra insulation, multiple black box computers controlling everything from brakes and tire pressure, to EFI, HVAC, communications, navigation, and who knows what else? I keep wishing for more sound deadening insulation, perhaps I will put it in some day. Not too much extra weight, but work it for a more quiet ride.

What would be your "wish list" for a modernized vitage T4wd?

1. 7afe, or 4age EFI engine, or perhpas the 20 valve 4age Larry installed?

2. Adjustable ride height suspension, better dampening, slightly stiffer/sportier ride.

3. 14" or 15" wheels with modern tires.

4. Larger vented/drilled/slotted brakes. 4 wheel disk brakes? who is for anti-lock brakes? I do not feel the need.

5. Better sound system, wifi?

6. Modern leather seats, updated interior finish (though I kind of like the vintage SR5 instrument cluster and see no need to go digital, which I do not care for, but could add a side panel with addition engine read outs).

7. Better sound deadening in the passenger compartment.

8. modern bright head lights, perhaps LED lighting through the rest of the car.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Mattel
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My tercel:: 1988 Corolla 4wd Wagon (AKA Corolla All-trac) 5speed, AC, Power Sunroof, Windows, Mirrors, Steering, Locking, Diff Lock, 14" Corolla SX Alloys with Silica Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, 210,000kms
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by Mattel » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:04 pm

I bet you are a bit of a hipster icon in Seattle when you get down there Petros with your Moustache and Tercel! :D

What would be your "wish list" for a modernized vitage T4wd?

1. 7afe, or 4age EFI engine, or perhpas the 20 valve 4age Larry installed?
Prius drivetrain with PEV adaptability.

2. Adjustable ride height suspension, better dampening, slightly stiffer/sportier ride.

3. 14" or 15" wheels with modern tires.
16"

4. Larger vented/drilled/slotted brakes. 4 wheel disk brakes? who is for anti-lock brakes? I do not feel the need.
All of these

5. Better sound system, wifi?
I like the idea of an upgradeable system. maybe a tablet or gps and phone based navigation

6. Modern leather seats, updated interior finish (though I kind of like the vintage SR5 instrument cluster and see no need to go digital, which I do not care for, but could add a side panel with addition engine read outs).
anything but leather to noisy and hot in summer but heated /ventilated

7. Better sound deadening in the passenger compartment.

8. modern bright head lights, perhaps LED lighting through the rest of the car.
[/quote]

A range of rooftents accessible through a tailgage sunroof would be great! slide out camping modules. built in attachments for roof racks, roo bar, bike racks, snowplows. etc
Previous: 83 Tercel SR5 4wd, 84 Tercel SR5 4wd
88 Corolla 4wd Wagon 5speed, All power options, Fact Sunroof, Diff Lock, 14" SX Alloys, Hankook Tyres, 4afe, King Springs, Upgraded Headlights, Full Synth oils, Tow Bar, 210,000kms

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by Petros » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:17 pm

Mattel wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:04 pm
I bet you are a bit of a hipster icon in Seattle when you get down there Petros with your Moustache and Tercel! :D

A range of rooftents accessible through a tailgage sunroof would be great! slide out camping modules. built in attachments for roof racks, roo bar, bike racks, snowplows. etc
never heard the term "hipster" applied to someone that drives vintage imported econo box. Thought I imagine Seattle is full of them, I generally do not identify with those that live there. I am entering geezerhood, so I would not qualify anyway. I might even be identified as a crumuggen who drives an old funky Tercel4wd. "you whipper snappers do not know what you are talking about, now get off of my lawn"


most of those items are not even available for more modern SUVs. bike racks that hang on the tailgate, and roof racks, you can get.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

The Professor
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My tercel:: 1987 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by The Professor » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:55 am

Petros wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:29 pm
there are no production cars (and very few custom ones) with carbon fibre bodies
I'll just leave this right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... coque_cars
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon & Turbo-Traction hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door, x2
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan
2019 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited

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LowBuckCanuck
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My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:03 am

Petros wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:29 pm
LowBuckCanuck wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:15 pm
[I've always had this dream of a one-off reproduction tercel constructed of carbon fibre and running a 200+ hp turbo A series engine under the hood. Until I become the co-creator of PayPal that will have to remain a dream.
there are no production cars (and very few custom ones) with carbon fibre bodies. Hoods and fenders maybe. but why would you need to save weight (at that much cost!) if you had 200 hp?

There is much to be said for weigh savings, but it is a very light car as it is compared to modern "small" cars full of airbags, extra insulation, multiple black box computers controlling everything from brakes and tire pressure, to EFI, HVAC, communications, navigation, and who knows what else? I keep wishing for more sound deadening insulation, perhaps I will put it in some day. Not too much extra weight, but work it for a more quiet ride.
Real reason? I don't want it to rust. Carbon fibre is cooler than fibreglass. The frame on this hypothetical tercel would be a chromoly tube chassis.

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irowiki
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by irowiki » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:18 am

I run into all sorts of (mostly older) people complimenting my older Tercels and our Camry Wagon.

My favorite was my old 81 Sedan, guy was a hippie, but in his 70's.

"DUUUUUUUUDE I HAD A CAR THAT LOOKED JUST LIKE THAT AND IT LASTED ME 25 YEARS. BEST CAR EVER!"
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)

Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!

81 Coachmen RV, 70k miles
95 Camry Wagon, 153k miles
04 Camry Sedan, 250k miles

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splatterdog
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by splatterdog » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:45 pm

Petros, just read the article on the DeLorean comeback https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/enthusi ... ar-BBSwqTC .
The funny part is this-
Then, a series of loud honks from the other side of the road, followed by animated waving, awaken us out of our speed spell. “We get that all the time," says DeLorean Motor Company CEO Stephen Wynne, sitting shotgun. “That doesn’t happen with any other car.”

Um, a lowly Tercel can have that happen once in a while. Been a while but certainly not my first time. Wife just reminded me about her road encounters when she was putting 150 miles a day on T4 #1.

A Tercel is also immeasurably more reliable.

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Petros
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by Petros » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:40 pm

The Professor wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:55 am
I'll just leave this right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... coque_cars
not sure I would consider very limited numbers of Bugatti, Lotus and similar makes in carbon, that had very short (usually one year) runs, as "production". in overall numbers, they are tiny compared to other models of the same makes, let alone other manufacturers. Many of those are electric cars, and likely just proof or prototype cars.

Carbon, like fiberglass, seems to have some advantages for production: tooling is much less costly, much less energy required to form it compared to stamped steel parts. and rust proof as well. but all composite cars cost much more, so either there is still a lot of hand labor as compared to conventional metal bodies, or it was never made on a mass production basis.

Seems there should be enough advantages to composite chasis, but it has never happened. One thing, minor repairs are simple, since it pops back out to the original shape. Major repairs are darn near impossible since the structure shatters into dust and fibers.

Making a one off is possible, but it is a lot of manual labor to make up molds forms or carving smooth shapes. But it is possible. If I was going to that much trouble I would not copy the Tercel either, even if I copied the drive train/layout and used out of the junk yard suspension and drive train parts.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Petros
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by Petros » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:44 pm

splatterdog wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:45 pm
Petros, just read the article on the DeLorean...
A Tercel is also immeasurably more reliable.
I had the same reaction too. the Tercel is much more useful as well. you can pack a lot more into the back of a tercel wagon than most modern SUVs. I once brought home a washer and dryer stuffed into the back of the Tercel. No other car we had could take even one of them.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

The Professor
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Posts: 586
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 6:38 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon
Location: Western Washington
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Re: Must have been a former owner.

Post by The Professor » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:45 am

Petros wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:40 pm
The Professor wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:55 am
I'll just leave this right here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... coque_cars
not sure I would consider very limited numbers of Bugatti, Lotus and similar makes in carbon, that had very short (usually one year) runs, as "production". in overall numbers, they are tiny compared to other models of the same makes, let alone other manufacturers. Many of those are electric cars, and likely just proof or prototype cars.
Yes, many of the vehicles on that list are one-year-only production and some in very limited quantities. BUT! These are all road-legal, series produced, emissions legal cars that you can (could) walk into a showroom and drive home. The Alfa 4C has an annual production of anywhere from 1,000 to 3,500. BMW delivers almost 2,700 i3s per month and is increasing production at the plant that builds the i3 and i8 from 100k per year to over 250k units per year.

Small-batch production, this is not.
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon & Turbo-Traction hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door, x2
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan
2019 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited

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