2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

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irowiki
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2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

So my 2001 Camry (260k miles) I just bought back from my sister is having an odd issue. (I sold it to her 7 years ago at 140k miles)

Temps will randomly rise from the norm of 195-215 to 230 then suddenly go back down to 210. Randomly when stopped it'll shoot up to 240, right below red, and start shooting coolant out the overflow.

Small bits of exhaust bubbles in the coolant overflow so I suspected a bad head gasket, but the compression is 150-160 across all four cylinders, and it's not eating coolant, so I'm not sure it is a head gasket. Power is still great and I got 30 MPG on the 800 mile trip home at 80 MPH.

This model year of 5SFE used a steel head gasket so it is pretty durable.

I think the thermostat was being funky (was a failsafe thermostat) so I replaced it with another thermostat, and I also replaced the radiator cap as the rubber on the old one was falling apart. It is better now, not getting as hot, but I'm still seeing the bubbles.

It was overheated badly a few years ago when my sister hit a racoon, busted the radiator, and then drove it the next day without any coolant, and apparently the car shut off when the needle hit red, they towed it home, replaced the radiator and it ran fine until a month or so ago when it started running hot all the time.

Does it look like a cracked head perhaps?

Curiously the bubbles only really come out at idle. I wonder if it has anything to do with the EGR valve because I'm these cars that is usually cooled by coolant and something could have cracked or a seal could have gone bad.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by Petros »

that is a pretty durable engine, even if overheated. I would doubt it is cracked, and if you are not loosing coolant than how would exhaust bubbles be getting into it? if cracked head, why are you not loosing coolant? More likely the bubbles are something in the coolant out-gassing when warm.

Could there be air trapped in the cooling system? air bubbles trapped could cause temp fluctuations.

I would suspect T-stat, if that you know is good, than could be coolant sensor. Every time I had random temperature fluctuations it was always the thermostat. Try an auxiliary (after market) temperature gauge to verify the behavior is actual temperature and not something in the car's temp/send system.

also, check lower radiator hose is good and stiff. when they get old and soft the suction on the water pump will close them off, cause engine to run hot.

is your radiator good? if partially plugged it will run hot on up hills and high speed, and than run normal at low speeds, down hills. Flush it, or consider taking it to a radiator shop where they can put a heat gun across the surface, if it has plugged tubes it will show up as cold and warm spots on the face of the radiator.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

Radiator is new, both hoses are new, radiator cap was just replaced, and thermostat was just replaced. I have a special funnel that lets the car run until no air bubbles are left, and in that time it started burping exhaust. I'll try my heat gun later.

It is definitely exhaust coming out, even after the car has been off for an hour the overflow bottle smells like fresh exhaust. The entire inside of the overflow bottle is coated in black crud too.

I think the temp sensor is fine, I know it was actually overheating because I was using an OBDII sensor as well, and when the needle almost hit the red at one point, it showed 240, and it started puking coolant out of the overflow at an impressive rate. I had to add over a quart of water afterwards. Also when it would overheat the oil that's sitting on the head from the valve cover leaking would start burning.

For some reason it wasn't ever sucking coolant back into the radiator, on my trip home I had to add almost a gallon of water over 800 miles of driving. I'm pretty sure the thermostat was screwed up so it wasn't circulating properly. It seems to be sucking water back in somewhat.

I drove it around all day, and it didn't lose any water, It's running better than it was before, but still running too hot, and still having exhaust bubbles coming out.

It's a mystery because it doesn't seem to be losing too much water.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

Forgot to mention there was white crud on all four spark plugs too. Will have to get the wife to drive behind me and look for white smoke! It maybe ate a few ounces of water today.

Idle is rough at times which I have read can be water leaking into the combustion chamber.

Could it be the headgasket is leaking enough for some exhaust leaking, and a tiny bit of coolant, but still allows for good compression?
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by Petros »

a shop with an exhaust meter can "sniff" your radiator to see if it is exhaust gases. If you are sure you have exhasut gas in the raditator, than almost certainly you have a compromised head gasket. That will not necessarily show up in a compression test. combusion stroke pressures are over 1000 psi, a compression test shows less than 200 PSI.

before you pull it apart you might try these head gasket fix stop leak products. this is not the your normal radiator stop leak, these kind cost $10-20, and you have to flush out all coolant in the system and put it in with just water and the product, run it for about 45 min, and drain the system overnight so the sealant can cure. I have used it several times with good results, though I suspect is only a stop gap measure until you can fix it properly later. In one case I drove a nissan I badly overheated for about a year on it (not really expecting it to work), and than sold it without any issues. IT does not always work if it is badly damaged, but it is cheap enough it is worth a try.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

So you're saying that even if the compression is fine, the head gasket could still be acting up.

What are the chances something is cracked instead?

I do have almost just water in the system now, I might drain it a few more times then give a sealer a try.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by Petros »

anything is possible if it was badly over heated, but I have never seen a cracked toyota head, even when really badly overheated (yes, I have done that more than once: pick up with a 20R, and several times in the T4wd). they can get badly warped, but I have never seen a crack. I doubt is is cracked, warped perhaps, but not cracked. Even so the block sealer may fix the crack for a while, though again that would only be an intrim fix until you can rebuild the head.

If that engine does not use the torque-to-yield bolts, but hard steel head bolts, you also might try retorquing them in sequence. I got lucky once and tried it after an engine overheated, was leaking coolant through the head gasket, and amazingly it work (it was on the 4ac I am driving now, 3 years later).
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

So break them loose each one and then retorque?
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by Petros »

yes, about a 1/8 turn back, and retorque per FSM, in order.

when I did it on mine after it overheated (and was loosing coolant), it was breaking loose at only about 36-42 ft lbs, even though I know I torqued it to factory spec of about 63 ft-lb. my precision beam torque wrench shows value in both directions; if it is torqued properly, it will break loose (start to turn) at the same value it was set at.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

Okay, this head most likely has not been touch since it was brand new but I will look into if the bolts are torque to yield or not.

I've looked into the head gasket sealers and I think I will give one of them a try. The bars leak one seems to be the best combination of good reviews and you can use it in antifreeze.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

Tried the best bars leaks head gasket sealer, at $48 for the bottle and it did not work. The 100% guarantee did work however and I got a refund!

The head bolts are torque to yield. Could I remove one, torque a new one, and repeat in sequence?
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by Petros »

if you are going to spend the money on new head bolts, you might as well do it correctly. If it does not work you would have to buy another set of head bolts.

since you may need to pull the head, I would try and retorque the head bolts as they are. Back off, and than tighten until you feel it yield a little bit. Might work. If not, it has to come off anyway.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

Kind of thinking about just getting another engine at this point.

For now though she's fine around town it's only on the highway she over heats.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by Petros »

always diagnose the problem before you try and fix it.

replacing the engine is a pretty drastic measure. OTOH, if you buy a crate engine for less than repairing your engine, might be worth it. That is if indeed it is the head gasket. That is why you need to diagnose it first.
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Re: 2001 Camry 5SFE random overheating

Post by irowiki »

Ah, well, the engine also burns quite a bit of oil too, despite the nice compression, so it probably needs a rebuild. There's also a lot more involved in getting the head off of this beast compared to a tercel, where if you take the engine out, everything just comes out in one go.

Timewise, I don't have much time to devote to car repair these days, so I can actually swap an engine quicker than we could do a headgasket job. We had the engine plus transmission out of one of these in about an hour or so.

Also, if the head is warped or if I need a new head, by the time you add up all the cost of everything, just dropping in a good junkyard engine seems to make more sense.
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95 Camry Wagon, 170k
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