How...?!?!

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BaileySims
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How...?!?!

Post by BaileySims » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:22 pm

How the hell does a flywheel break? It broke in a perfect circle where it attaches to the crank. It's my wife's 2002 Isuzu axiom. I've never seen something like this happen before. I'll post some pictures tomorrow when I pull the tranny. Man, this suv is nothing but problems. :/
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Petros
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by Petros » Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:44 pm

I have never heard of that before, was the engine ever out of it? Possible it was set down on the flywheel and put a small crack at the hub of the flywheel. I can not imagine why else that would happen, there are no loads in that direction on the flywheel. So either it was improperly made or defective in some other way, or it was damaged when it was out of the vehicle.

I think that model is actually a ford with an Isuzu label on it, so that also might explain it. Ford, like most US car makers, pushes the tolerance, materials quality, and manufacturing process right to the ragged edge of rejected parts to "save" money. Of course they eat it at the warranty end, and worst of all, the bean counters do not understand that lots of unhappy customers will cause them to go away for their next purchase (which is what happened in 2008).

Isuzu made some pretty decent trucks and heavy equipment (though their cars were never all that great). I had a real Japanese made Isuzu pickup once, one of the most trouble free vehicles I have ever owned. It was kind of under-powered, but very reliable, and thousands less than the Toyota or Nissan equivalent at the time.

If your VIN starts with a "J" it is made in Japan, if it starts with anything else, it is made in a ford factory in the USA by union labor.
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ARCHINSTL
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by ARCHINSTL » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:02 pm

Petros wrote:by union labor.
"Union labor " = BADBADBAD - right? And I DO mean "right"...!
:lol:
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Petros
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by Petros » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:18 pm

I found this on Wiki about the Axium:
"Exclusively sold in the United States and Costa Rica, the Axiom was built alongside the Rodeo in Lafayette, Indiana at Subaru Isuzu Automotive, Inc.. The peculiar styling and truck-based platform was not well received in the marketplace, and the Axiom was replaced by the Chevrolet TrailBlazer-derived Isuzu Ascender in 2004, leading to Isuzu's withdrawal from the manufacture and sale of passenger vehicles in North America in 2009."

Not made by Ford, but by General motors in Indiana. It was never even sold in Japan, nor any other country except Costa Rica.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
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Petros
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by Petros » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:23 pm

Hey tom,

go read up on the Union troubles GM had, hastening their demise. Not all unions are bad, but the auto unions suffer a form of mental illness, they want to destroy the employer that will keep them alive. Very dysfunctional behavior, much to the detriment of us car makers.

There are lots of factors that contributed to the failure of GM as a market innovator and manufacturer of quality cars and trucks, the union was only one of them.

for the record, I have been members of unions twice in my working career.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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BaileySims
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by BaileySims » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:19 pm

You might be right. It could have been damaged after they pulled the motor. I saw the donor vehicle first hand before they took it out. Both the tranny and motor I have are from the vehicle. Crazy how it broke though. Every thing was going smoothly then once I hit 60mph, I just see the rpms raise up and realize I'm no longer going anywhere. Finally was able to track down one locally after calling the whole city basically. Just hoping that I can get this thing going quickly, this suv has been a burden with every thing going on around here.
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keith
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by keith » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:56 am

I suspect you will find that it is a dual mass flywheel and the two halves separated. There are six or eight pins or rivets that hold the two halves together with a friction fit. If they sheared off, then you will have this issue.

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Re: How...?!?!

Post by BaileySims » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:15 am

I don't know about this. Dam near paper thin.
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lannvouivre
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by lannvouivre » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:16 am

I've seen a flexplate break like that due to excessive torque output by a motor, but this was on a Cummins engine.
Image

EDIT: Bailey, that's actually a flexplate. Those are thin and fragile. All they do is bolt to the torque converter and crank, and give the starter a place to engage.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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BaileySims
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by BaileySims » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:17 am

Hahaha. Ridiculous! I wasn't even pushing on it at all. I hate this suv.
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BaileySims
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by BaileySims » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:34 am

For it being a flex plate, it sure as hell didn't have enough flex in it. Hahah
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splatterdog
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by splatterdog » Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:17 pm

Isuzu is dead last on my Jap car list. Been there since the 80's, when I started wrenching. The trucks never got to prove themselves around here as their frames rusted out in record time.

All the broken flex plates I've seen have been Mopars. Their old V8's and 90's minivans. The minivans ran weird as the crank sensor vanes were part of the flexplate, and would be off several degrees. At least on the RWD stuff, you could just back the trans up a couple inches and sneak the plate in. It's a little weird to completely strip out. All the ones I've seen still drove, just with funny noises or driveability problems.

You're probably just used to the reliability of an old T4! I say "well they can't all be Tercels" too often...

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Petros
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Re: How...?!?!

Post by Petros » Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:44 pm

not a flywheel at all. I have seen that kind of failure before. when I was in high school auto shop in 1974, a student brought in a big family sedan, the kind everyone had than, cheap, powerful, heavy gas hog, but loads of room. At idle we heard a funny crackling noise coming from the back of the engine, but it seemed to drive and act normal. It just sounded bad.

We pulled the trans and found exactly that problem, the flex plate was full of fatigue cracks in an irregular pattern circling the center hub area. This allowed it to transmit torque to the trans, but also shift and wiggle in place making all the odd noises at idle (under power it kind of locked up and made no noise). It sounded like it has a problem at idle, but I suspect the instructor had an idea, I still remember him holding his hands up, interlocked, but kind of shaky, demonstarting what was causing the odd noise. that big v-8, with a teenage driver at the wheel, put too much load on that flex plate and eventually filled it full of cracks. This was when cars were consider ready for the crusher when it had about 100k miles on them, so it did not take much to fail the flex plate. All cars have become much more durable since then.

Funny thing is I have never seen that on a Japanese made vehicle, only the domestic made stuff.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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