BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

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Mad_Marx
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BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by Mad_Marx »

As much as I dislike some of Subaru's engineering quirks, I'm a sucker for a vintage wagon with plaid seats...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401063055836?rmvSB=true
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dlb
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by dlb »

i have zero experience with sub's and have heard many negative things about them here and elsewhere that make me very wary of them.

however, there are a few things about the loyale/GL wagons that i really dig. some of the old ones have a hi/low transfer case, which is obv very cool, especially in a station wagon. i like the simple 'raise the ride height' system (can't remember how it works now but watched a video on it long ago). i like that the rear seats fold flat. to me, those are all significantly cool features.

also, i love the dash cluster and controls from what i can see in those ebay pics. that orange is awesome. the seats are great too. it's neat that the 4wd shifter is in a similar location to the tercel's. i don't see a hi/low selector though.

that back end looks like it's sitting a little high. it makes it looks muscular but it doesn't look stock to me. plus the picture from directly behind the car shows what looks like a fair amount positive camber on the rear wheels, and the rear mudflaps are angled to match that positive camber. very weird.

regardless, it looks really cool and super, super clean. i bet it will sell at that price.
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Mark
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by Mark »

The spare tire is under the hood next to the engine?
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by splatterdog »

Just seen one the other day! Must have worse heat than a T4. There was clear poly just behind the front seats.

The Subes were way weirder than a T4. I worked on lots of Subes way back. One T4 ever..
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by Mad_Marx »

Yeah, spare tire in the engine compartment, one of the many quirks I don't like.... :)
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dlb
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by dlb »

i don't like it either but it does mean more space in the trunk.

my preferred method for carrying a spare is on the rear hatch so that no interior space is sacrificed but that only works on side-swinging rear hatches, like CRV's and rav4's.

SD, were you working on the subaru or did you just see it around town?
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by splatterdog »

Luckily on the road, and not in my bay! haha

They were a bit of handful when they weren't old and crusty
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by Petros »

already too high by double. I worked on a few early ones, I had one friend in college that fell in love with them, he found one with a blown engine and went about making it an off road machine.

after blowing a number of engines trying to get more power out of them, he gave up and got a Toyota 4x4 truck.

They put the spare tire over the engine trying to get more weight over the front wheels, the fwd ones used this method of trying to compensate for their poor handling behavior. All of these early ones were kind of quirky, not very reliable, nor very durable. You can also count on redoing the head gasket about every time it needed tires.
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by Mattel »

Subarus have always been popular in Australia. I did a lot of kms in a friends one of these 20 years ago. really comfortable independent suspension and lo range and relatively reliable for the time (not quite Toyota levels due to complexity and refinement) but some great features. Still see lots of brumbies (brats) utes in rural areas.
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by dlb »

Mattel wrote: Still see lots of brumbies (brats) utes in rural areas.
i think the brats are such a neat design. i've only seen a few in the flesh, and one was at burning man and belonged to a real mad max-type. it was awesome.
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by The Professor »

Petros wrote:already too high by double. I worked on a few early ones, I had one friend in college that fell in love with them, he found one with a blown engine and went about making it an off road machine.

after blowing a number of engines trying to get more power out of them, he gave up and got a Toyota 4x4 truck.

They put the spare tire over the engine trying to get more weight over the front wheels, the fwd ones used this method of trying to compensate for their poor handling behavior. All of these early ones were kind of quirky, not very reliable, nor very durable. You can also count on redoing the head gasket about every time it needed tires.
This reminds me of Mustang and Camaro guys, or STI vs. EVO. You guys have really bad opinions of the old Subarus, but I quite like them. Now after having daily driven a T4WD for the last several months, I really miss my 1984 Turbo wagon. In fact, I think the Tercel is a much more "fragile" feeling vehicle compared to my Subarus.

The line about the spare tire being over the front wheels to compensate for poor handling is BS. The spare is under the hood because the low rear load floor, rear mounted gas tank and high-mounted rear differential mean there is no room in the back for the spare. These old GLs all have four wheel independent suspension that doesn't wear in goofy ways, or use the anti-roll bar as a tension rod in the front suspension.

The early ones (1975-1989 (except '85+ turbos)) are exceptionally quirky, exceptionally reliable and exceptionally durable. Head gaskets are only an issue on the '85-89 turbos and the (much) later EJ25 engines (1998-05).

Comparing like-for-like, a similar vintage Subaru is faster, as good on gas, better off & on road and has a more useful interior than a Tercel wagon.

If anyone in western Washington wants to do a back-to-back road test, hit me up.
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by irowiki »

For surely the spare tire being in there would be bad for the rubber?
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by The Professor »

It's a toss up on the spare tire issue. It does get exposed to more radiant heat, but it also sees zero UV light. I still have the original T-type spare in both my '84 turbos.
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by Petros »

dear Professor,

You are quite incorrect about the location of the spare. When I was in engineering school, my automotive engineering professor arranged a field trip to Subaru's US engineering center, where they received and investigated dealer problems and feedback from customers. The small 4wd was a relatively new market segment in the US at the time, NONE of the big three us makers saw any future in it (and lost out BIG time, again). The Subaru had many interesting innovations in it, the 4 wheel drive and 4 wheel independent suspension was one of them. but I had actually questioned the Subaru engineers about the location of the spare (which was indeed odd by US standards), and he explained it was about getting the weight and balance in a more favorable location for the fwd Subaru. At the time, all of the front wheel drive cars were going to various means to get more weight over the drive wheels, because the tendency is for the front wheels to unload during hard acceleration (particularly when going up hill), causing premature tire wear, slippage, torque steer and a lot of other problems that American customers were not used to dealing with. I assume the Subaru engineers knew what they were talking about. Modern front wheel drive cars have improved their behavior greatly from the early ones, though in truth, the early FWD Tercels were hard for most customers to notice any difference, so Toyota had already solved most of those problems without obvious weight and balance measures.

Also consider, there are as many, if not more, Tercel4wd out there on the roads today as similar years Subarus. The live axle in the rear in the Tercel, while heavy, is virtually indestructible. The body integrity also appears to be much better than the subarus (one of the complaints I recall was the subaru felt light and "tinny", not very durable). And the earlyb all aluminum subaru 1600 cc engines would not take a lot of abuse, there were many wrecking yards with piles of relatively new subaru engines with the connecting rods poking through the case. This was never true of the cast iron block 3ac toyota engine, the low end is completely bomb proof as long as it is kept lubricated. Indeed, one of the ways I helped my friend with his subaru fetish, was trying to make the connecting rods more durable: I took them to the shop I worked at and rebuilt a set for him. I installed larger, stronger steel bolts, deburred and polished the all the cast iron surfaces, altered the lubrication ports on it to improve lubrication, precision honed both ends, and have them shot peened and heat treated. Seemed to work, he did not throw any rods after that.

Yes, the subaru preformed better than the under powered TErcel4wd: it was lighter, had more power, and has 4 wheel independent suspension. But some other models of Subaru also used that same means of locating the lower arms as the Tercel, the sway bar ends mounted in squishy rubber donuts on the lower arm (a simple but bad idea, why all manufactures abandon it, except Ford). I have seen them on Subarus in the wrecking yards, not sure what years, but it is the same method as the Tercel4wd lower arm.

In addition, every mechanic I knew at the time (and even today), hated working on the Subarus, difficult access and labor intensive procedures (like removing the engine to change a head gasket). One of the reasons I like most Toyotas in fact, is they are much more mechanic friendly, easier access, and parts are also inexpensive. I used to be a big Honda fan, we have owned many models, but I have since switched to wanting all Toyota because they are not only more reliable and durable, but much easier to work on.

You also seem to forget how troublesome the early Subaru were to own and maintain, no doubt colored by your affection for the newer models. The newer models are much improved, and more reliable, though they still seem to have an issue with automatic transmissions (true actually of most modern 4 and 5 speed auto trans from all manufacturers). And they are even more of a PIA to work on that most cars.

It would have been nice if Toyota had performance in mind, or at least offer an EFI verison of the Tercel4wd, with improved brakes. But their marketing plan regulated the Tercel to "entry level" drivers and did not want to scare off first time buyers with performance options. The entry level driver is very important in the marketing line up: if a new driver has a good experiance with their entry level car when young, they are very highly likely to stick with the Toyota brand when went they move up, get married, have children, and will be buy larger, nicer and much more expensive models. (again a lesson the big three in the USA failed to learn, all US made entry level cars are always cheap pieces of crap, making repeat customers of larger more expensive models much less likely...stupid short term thinking).

So I have been going about building up a Tercel4wd the way I think Toyota should have made them: with more power, EFI, better brakes, and a more sporty suspension. So far so good, I have no intention of "moving up" to a larger car. I want a smaller car with good performance.
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'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
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Re: BAT 1982 Subaru GL (via eBay)

Post by lannvouivre »

The Brat is honestly a pretty cool idea. I haven't actually ever seen one in person, so I know almost nothing about it besides what Petros just said. It's the sort of thing I'd like (except I'd rather have an LS-swapped El Camino), as I'm a massive fan of mullet cars.
Petros wrote:the sway bar ends mounted in squishy rubber donuts on the lower arm (a simple but bad idea, why all manufactures abandon it, except Ford).
Oh lord, Ford. They're kind of associated with doing things backwards, according to some long-time GM technicians who were my instructors.
Petros wrote:It would have been nice if Toyota had performance in mind, or at least offer an EFI verison of the Tercel4wd, with improved brakes. But their marketing plan regulated the Tercel to "entry level" drivers and did not want to scare off first time buyers with performance options. The entry level driver is very important in the marketing line up: if a new driver has a good experiance with their entry level car when young, they are very highly likely to stick with the Toyota brand when went they move up, get married, have children, and will be buy larger, nicer and much more expensive models. (again a lesson the big three in the USA failed to learn, all US made entry level cars are always cheap pieces of crap, making repeat customers of larger more expensive models much less likely...stupid short term thinking).
This is absolutely how Toyota works. It's really frustrating. I know they can be much better, but they are very resistant to change because they don't want you to have a bad time. IDK why they don't realize that having very low horsepower is absolutely horrible. I am pretty sick of trying to pass a slow driver in the Vibe, and then having to give up because the other person just pressed their gas pedal a tiny bit harder and my car absolutely cannot keep up. If anything happens to the Vibe at this point, I'm probably just going to get a Mazda2, Mazda3 hatch, or Protege5 (note that I don't live in an area that has ever used road salt...all of those cars tend to look mint or have peeling clearcoat down here at the worst).

Or the latest generation of Yaris, since the Yaris gets lot of aftermarket support.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?
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