rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
- dlb
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rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
this wasn't any big deal but i took pics anyway so here they are.
i found a leak at the rear end of the tranny, appeared to be the seal there. replacing it didn't require draining the tranny fluid (i could just jack the back end up real high) but i don't know if the fluid had ever been changed so i put the two jobs together. to begin with, i opened the front fill plug on the tranny to make sure i wasn't going to screw myself. no problems with potentially stripping it, just used a 24 mm socket and kept pressure down on the plug while i ratcheted away. opened the 3 drain plugs and this ugly stuff came out. it was actually just about as brown as it looks and it stunk like death.
put the plugs back in, leaving the rearmost undone 8 turns. blocked the front wheels and jacked up the back end. this way i could rotate the driveline and get to all of the nuts and bolts easily.
petros and tom said to disconnect the driveline at the rear diff (the 'pumpkin'), undo the center carrier, and slide the whole thing out. that was a long piece of driveline to pass over the exhaust while lying cramped on my back under the car so instead, i put a jack under the front end of propeller shaft...
...and undid the nuts and bolts between the propeller shaft and the intermediate shaft. using this method i was not able to thoroughly check the rear u-joint on the propeller shaft but the other u-joints were still in good shape so i didn't worry about it any further. sloppy us-joints can cause the offending seal to fail which is why you would want to look for this while doing this job.
for those who don't know, the intermediate is the front shaft while the propeller is the rear shaft. the intermediate has a u-joint at the front end and the propeller has u-joints at both ends. i used a cold chisel and hammer to separate the two, didn't take much. once separated, i lowered the intermediate shaft and slid the front end out of the tranny.
this is what you're left looking at once you have the intermediate shaft removed:
next i tapped the dust cover off with a hammer. now i could access the seal.
and then i pried out the old seal with a few screwdrivers as per xirdneh's directions. here it is with the seal out.
everything up to this was easy. tapping the goddamned new seal in was a PITA like none other. tapping in oil seals is clearly a learned skill which i don't have yet, as i spent probably 40 minutes tap-tap-tapping away, getting NOWHERE. the damn thing kept going in cockeyed and then popping out. eventually i called my pops and got his ass under the car because i was getting a little frustrated. he had no problem, the SOB. he brought a smaller hammer than i had and explained his technique thus: when you place the seal just into the housing, there will be two high points on which it will pivot. tap one of them so it seats just inside the housing, and then give a slightly harder tap on the direct opposite side. this will make the seal sit square so you can begin tapping all around it until it is at the required depth. for this job, the seal is to be flush with the housing it sits in. thanks dad.
this is my cat, masuku. note his thumbs. he loves it when i work out in the tent and brings me birds, rabbits, snakes, rats, voles...all of which he eats entirely. what a good boy.
with the seal back in, i reversed my steps and reinstalled the dust shield, intermediate shaft, bolted up the carrier, and bolted the two shafts back together. i lowered the back end and jacked up the front to fill up the tranny fluid. the nozzle i had that attached to the tranny fluid bottle was not long enough and made some work for me. it was this kind:
so i pulled the battery, disconnected the alternator and spark plug leads, unplugged all the various plugs going from the fuse box to wherever they went, and removed the starter. then i had enough room to get the jug in and poke the end of the nozzle in the filler hole.
the end of the nozzle had a plug on it. now, i had a 4 liter jug of gear oil and the required amount is 3.9 liters. i had thought, 'how stupid. i'll just have to guess when the jug is almost empty.' i didn't give toyota enough credit though because they must have known that your average jerk wrenching at home is going to spill a bunch of oil when they actually start filling the tranny. i had warmed the oil by the fireplace in my house for maybe 20 minutes before doing this so it was nice and loose and gave a good initial gush when i opened the plug on the nozzle. i got the nozzle in the filler hole pretty quick but not before i spilled, oh, about .1 liter of gear oil on the hard plastic sheet i was laying on under the car. ever had gear oil in your hair? i have.
i call it brain (tumour) food. i wasn't psyched about this but had other stuff to attend to so as soon as i had the nozzle in filler hole i jumped up and used a sharp utility knife to cut an air hole in the uppermost part of the jug for air. this was to prevent the jug from doing that gulping thing and likely dislodging itself, causing further oil spill disaster. worked well and i don't know about you guys saying it took hours to fill your tranny, i had all 3.9 liters in within 5 minutes. mopped up my head, put the rearmost drain plug and fill plug back in, reinstalled the starter, battery, plugs, and alternator wires, and i was done. showered with dish soap and now smell lemon fresh.
i found a leak at the rear end of the tranny, appeared to be the seal there. replacing it didn't require draining the tranny fluid (i could just jack the back end up real high) but i don't know if the fluid had ever been changed so i put the two jobs together. to begin with, i opened the front fill plug on the tranny to make sure i wasn't going to screw myself. no problems with potentially stripping it, just used a 24 mm socket and kept pressure down on the plug while i ratcheted away. opened the 3 drain plugs and this ugly stuff came out. it was actually just about as brown as it looks and it stunk like death.
put the plugs back in, leaving the rearmost undone 8 turns. blocked the front wheels and jacked up the back end. this way i could rotate the driveline and get to all of the nuts and bolts easily.
petros and tom said to disconnect the driveline at the rear diff (the 'pumpkin'), undo the center carrier, and slide the whole thing out. that was a long piece of driveline to pass over the exhaust while lying cramped on my back under the car so instead, i put a jack under the front end of propeller shaft...
...and undid the nuts and bolts between the propeller shaft and the intermediate shaft. using this method i was not able to thoroughly check the rear u-joint on the propeller shaft but the other u-joints were still in good shape so i didn't worry about it any further. sloppy us-joints can cause the offending seal to fail which is why you would want to look for this while doing this job.
for those who don't know, the intermediate is the front shaft while the propeller is the rear shaft. the intermediate has a u-joint at the front end and the propeller has u-joints at both ends. i used a cold chisel and hammer to separate the two, didn't take much. once separated, i lowered the intermediate shaft and slid the front end out of the tranny.
this is what you're left looking at once you have the intermediate shaft removed:
next i tapped the dust cover off with a hammer. now i could access the seal.
and then i pried out the old seal with a few screwdrivers as per xirdneh's directions. here it is with the seal out.
everything up to this was easy. tapping the goddamned new seal in was a PITA like none other. tapping in oil seals is clearly a learned skill which i don't have yet, as i spent probably 40 minutes tap-tap-tapping away, getting NOWHERE. the damn thing kept going in cockeyed and then popping out. eventually i called my pops and got his ass under the car because i was getting a little frustrated. he had no problem, the SOB. he brought a smaller hammer than i had and explained his technique thus: when you place the seal just into the housing, there will be two high points on which it will pivot. tap one of them so it seats just inside the housing, and then give a slightly harder tap on the direct opposite side. this will make the seal sit square so you can begin tapping all around it until it is at the required depth. for this job, the seal is to be flush with the housing it sits in. thanks dad.
this is my cat, masuku. note his thumbs. he loves it when i work out in the tent and brings me birds, rabbits, snakes, rats, voles...all of which he eats entirely. what a good boy.
with the seal back in, i reversed my steps and reinstalled the dust shield, intermediate shaft, bolted up the carrier, and bolted the two shafts back together. i lowered the back end and jacked up the front to fill up the tranny fluid. the nozzle i had that attached to the tranny fluid bottle was not long enough and made some work for me. it was this kind:
so i pulled the battery, disconnected the alternator and spark plug leads, unplugged all the various plugs going from the fuse box to wherever they went, and removed the starter. then i had enough room to get the jug in and poke the end of the nozzle in the filler hole.
the end of the nozzle had a plug on it. now, i had a 4 liter jug of gear oil and the required amount is 3.9 liters. i had thought, 'how stupid. i'll just have to guess when the jug is almost empty.' i didn't give toyota enough credit though because they must have known that your average jerk wrenching at home is going to spill a bunch of oil when they actually start filling the tranny. i had warmed the oil by the fireplace in my house for maybe 20 minutes before doing this so it was nice and loose and gave a good initial gush when i opened the plug on the nozzle. i got the nozzle in the filler hole pretty quick but not before i spilled, oh, about .1 liter of gear oil on the hard plastic sheet i was laying on under the car. ever had gear oil in your hair? i have.
i call it brain (tumour) food. i wasn't psyched about this but had other stuff to attend to so as soon as i had the nozzle in filler hole i jumped up and used a sharp utility knife to cut an air hole in the uppermost part of the jug for air. this was to prevent the jug from doing that gulping thing and likely dislodging itself, causing further oil spill disaster. worked well and i don't know about you guys saying it took hours to fill your tranny, i had all 3.9 liters in within 5 minutes. mopped up my head, put the rearmost drain plug and fill plug back in, reinstalled the starter, battery, plugs, and alternator wires, and i was done. showered with dish soap and now smell lemon fresh.
- ARCHINSTL
- Goldie Forever
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
+ + +
It's gratifying to see another person's work area is a gravel driveway...
After various methods, I settled on the inexpensive pump attachment, available at any parts store, which screws onto a 1-gallon bottle of gear oil - just use a longer plastic tube and you get place the jug in a wheel well for clearance. It does take longer that 5 minutes, but - it is much less messy, and the only things that need removal are the filler plugs.
I used a scissors jack under the rear shaft and just eased the whole thing on down.
Did you have any probs with rounding off those #@&^%$% soft bolt heads or nuts on the shafts' ends? I sure did! I had to buy some crowfoot openends which attached to a ratchet's extension (from Harbor Freight).
Your hair photo reminds me of the Wildroot Cream Oil we studly 8th-graders used back in '54 (1954!).
So - you don't like whitewalls? Philistine!
Tom M.
It's gratifying to see another person's work area is a gravel driveway...
After various methods, I settled on the inexpensive pump attachment, available at any parts store, which screws onto a 1-gallon bottle of gear oil - just use a longer plastic tube and you get place the jug in a wheel well for clearance. It does take longer that 5 minutes, but - it is much less messy, and the only things that need removal are the filler plugs.
I used a scissors jack under the rear shaft and just eased the whole thing on down.
Did you have any probs with rounding off those #@&^%$% soft bolt heads or nuts on the shafts' ends? I sure did! I had to buy some crowfoot openends which attached to a ratchet's extension (from Harbor Freight).
Your hair photo reminds me of the Wildroot Cream Oil we studly 8th-graders used back in '54 (1954!).
So - you don't like whitewalls? Philistine!
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
- dlb
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
no, no issues at all. just used two 12 mm wrenches.ARCHINSTL wrote:Did you have any probs with rounding off those #@&^%$% soft bolt heads or nuts on the shafts' ends?
man, you know i paint everything i can black! whitewalls just somehow don't fit that mad max aesthetic.ARCHINSTL wrote:So - you don't like whitewalls? Philistine!
Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
That be some ugly oil you got out of there!
Here's the BEST method to change out the oil....
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1719
Takes a little time to make it...but it's easier after all is said and done.
Gear oil in the hair? Welcome to the club....stuff stinks like hey doesn't it?
Here's the BEST method to change out the oil....
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1719
Takes a little time to make it...but it's easier after all is said and done.
Gear oil in the hair? Welcome to the club....stuff stinks like hey doesn't it?
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
- splatterdog
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
Dish soap is the best thing for gear oil in hair. I've worn it more than once...
BTW. No synthetic lube? Or is this just rinse mode?
BTW. No synthetic lube? Or is this just rinse mode?
- Petros
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
I use the same kind of filler nozzle, it works great, but you have to get a longer piece of clear tube for it. Saves a lot of work, I have about 3 feet of tube on mine, I can fill the rear diff from the rear wheel well. I like to hang the jug up-side down while I do other chores on the car and just watch for overflow. I also like to jack the filler side of the trans a bit higher than rest of the car to allow a slight overfill.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
- dlb
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
SD, i didn't go with synthetic lube because there are so many differing opinions on the topic and i don't know enough about it. i just went with the manual recommendation but i'm definitely open to suggestions.
and FYI, initially after the oil change the gears were a little stiff but after a little bit of driving it was good again.
and FYI, initially after the oil change the gears were a little stiff but after a little bit of driving it was good again.
Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
thanks heaps! this is exactly what i need to do.
I just discovered this morning that all that oil getting flicked onto my back door while driving is coming from this seal!
I checked my tranny fluid and couldn't get any on my finger tip,
So I drained it all and there was still some in there... maybe less than 1.5 quarts...
pretty dark oil.
But as I dont yet have the new seal, I put the same old oil back in, followed by about 2 quarts of fresher oil til the filler overflowed.
When I can track down one of these seals I will drain the fluid again and put new stuff in.
By the way, pulling out half the engine bay to poor the oil in from above... sheesh, you like to make work for yourself!
I got one of them 1 quart pump bottles, i think i paid about $19 for it, but compared to doing all that work, I'd pay it every time!
I can take the pump out of the 1 qt bottle and put it into a full size oil bottle too, same lit thread.
but the 1 qt bottle is good because it is clear and has 100 mil marks on it for precise measurements.
purty sure i had to put in 1.8 litres on top of what old oil was in there.
By the way, I noticed that the Uni joints are not removable... they dont have a spring clip holding the end in... they are locked in by the metal thats been pushed in by the factory machine or something, whats the go with that?? what if i need to do a uni?
I just discovered this morning that all that oil getting flicked onto my back door while driving is coming from this seal!
I checked my tranny fluid and couldn't get any on my finger tip,
So I drained it all and there was still some in there... maybe less than 1.5 quarts...
pretty dark oil.
But as I dont yet have the new seal, I put the same old oil back in, followed by about 2 quarts of fresher oil til the filler overflowed.
When I can track down one of these seals I will drain the fluid again and put new stuff in.
By the way, pulling out half the engine bay to poor the oil in from above... sheesh, you like to make work for yourself!
I got one of them 1 quart pump bottles, i think i paid about $19 for it, but compared to doing all that work, I'd pay it every time!
I can take the pump out of the 1 qt bottle and put it into a full size oil bottle too, same lit thread.
but the 1 qt bottle is good because it is clear and has 100 mil marks on it for precise measurements.
purty sure i had to put in 1.8 litres on top of what old oil was in there.
By the way, I noticed that the Uni joints are not removable... they dont have a spring clip holding the end in... they are locked in by the metal thats been pushed in by the factory machine or something, whats the go with that?? what if i need to do a uni?
-
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
See my post in this thread: http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... eal#p42018gmeddy wrote:
By the way, I noticed that the Uni joints are not removable... they dont have a spring clip holding the end in... they are locked in by the metal thats been pushed in by the factory machine or something, whats the go with that?? what if i need to do a uni?
- dlb
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
gmeddy, glad the thread is useful to you! i know, i wish i could find a pump bottle or something else but i didn't want to run into town that day and was limited to what the small local store had. i added more oil later on and found i didn't need to remove the battery, just the starter and unplug all the plugs, then i could get the jug down there easily. not quite as bad.
- ARCHINSTL
- Goldie Forever
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
I thought every parts store carried these - I bought the 1-quart size a couple of years ago, and then discovered the 1-gal bottle size last year. I think it was $6-7 at Advance. By far the easiest way to go - short of a powered bottle.
I added quite a bit of tubing, as mentioned in a previous post. I also added an L-shaped end from something in the "Dorman odds-and-ends rack" so the nozzle fit more securely in the filler holes.
Tom M.
I added quite a bit of tubing, as mentioned in a previous post. I also added an L-shaped end from something in the "Dorman odds-and-ends rack" so the nozzle fit more securely in the filler holes.
Tom M.
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T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain
-
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Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
i always fill using the aft passenger side hole (remove plug with 24mm or 15/16" wrench)
i think the FSM says to fill here
its hard to bend the hose into the hole
i used some pipe fittings i had lying around to make a sharp turn (no throat radius) 90 deg elbow
i think its 1/4 pipe
it fits snug in the hose
remember to loosen the 19 mm bolt on aft bottom of tranny 8 turns
remove front drivers side plug in differential housing too
i think the FSM says to fill here
its hard to bend the hose into the hole
i used some pipe fittings i had lying around to make a sharp turn (no throat radius) 90 deg elbow
i think its 1/4 pipe
it fits snug in the hose
remember to loosen the 19 mm bolt on aft bottom of tranny 8 turns
remove front drivers side plug in differential housing too
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
As I've mentioned maybe a FEW times before....
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1719
I started out using the 1 quart gear oil bottles in the front fill hole....sort of hard on the hands...to put it mildly....takes a lot of time.
Then I used the hand pump...wore my arm out and the pump eventually failed....which I figured out when I was pumping like mad and not much oil was moving.
Then I invented and patented the "takza air assist gear oil filling device". I've used the same jug maybe for 3-4 fills with the wagon and with my truck. No breaking your arm or hands and you get to meditate while your trans fills....and you keep tabs on the air pressure.
Seeing little positive response and people still breaking their arms with manual pumps and removing the starter for Bhudda's sake...I'm almost beginning to believe that the innertubes are for naught...with no one having much capacity to learn from other's mistakes.
Easiest way?
If in doubt...drain fully and refill from the front filler hole with the front on ramps...using 4.1 quarts.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1719
I started out using the 1 quart gear oil bottles in the front fill hole....sort of hard on the hands...to put it mildly....takes a lot of time.
Then I used the hand pump...wore my arm out and the pump eventually failed....which I figured out when I was pumping like mad and not much oil was moving.
Then I invented and patented the "takza air assist gear oil filling device". I've used the same jug maybe for 3-4 fills with the wagon and with my truck. No breaking your arm or hands and you get to meditate while your trans fills....and you keep tabs on the air pressure.
Seeing little positive response and people still breaking their arms with manual pumps and removing the starter for Bhudda's sake...I'm almost beginning to believe that the innertubes are for naught...with no one having much capacity to learn from other's mistakes.
Easiest way?
If in doubt...drain fully and refill from the front filler hole with the front on ramps...using 4.1 quarts.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
- dlb
- Highest Ranking Member
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- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm
- My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
- Location: bc, canada
Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
give me a break, the starter is held in by two 14 mm bolts. it's not a big deal to take it out. on top of that, i had no issues with having to wait for the gear oil to slowly crawl in or hand-pump anything, it just flowed right in. i used what was available and it worked fine so different strokes for different folks, i say.
Re: rear tailshaft housing seal & tranny fluid flush
I thought of that method...but didn't get past wondering how much gear oil I was going to get all over the ground.
If you had a secure way of keeping a vinyl hose on a gallon jug...the vinyl hose can be wedged in the trans front filler hole pretty easy...so...put the hose in the trans (securely)...run it up to the side of the engine...connect hose to jug with 4.1 qts...udo your clamp on the hose...let it gurgle...then later punch a hole in the bottom of the jug to make it go faster. If you could buy the gear oil in a 4 qt jug...you'd have it made.
Me....I'd set this up and think things were going fine...till I looked under the car and saw a big puddle of stinky gear oil.
If you had a secure way of keeping a vinyl hose on a gallon jug...the vinyl hose can be wedged in the trans front filler hole pretty easy...so...put the hose in the trans (securely)...run it up to the side of the engine...connect hose to jug with 4.1 qts...udo your clamp on the hose...let it gurgle...then later punch a hole in the bottom of the jug to make it go faster. If you could buy the gear oil in a 4 qt jug...you'd have it made.
Me....I'd set this up and think things were going fine...till I looked under the car and saw a big puddle of stinky gear oil.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...
Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...