Front swaybar fun....

takza · Post by **takza** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:12 pm

Got around to taking this off and....guess what I found....PROBLEMS....

how I did the work:

* got the car up on stands and removed the front wheels.

* I treated both ends of the swaybar with PBBlaster for around 36 hrs to loosen the nuts...DON"T LEAVE THIS STEP OUT! I then used a breaker bar with a pipe for an extension...takes some torque.

* I took one end of the swaybar off at a time and had both front brackets off also. I needed to jack each hub up to center the swaybar end in the control arm opening before pulling the end out of the control arm.

* both ends should be finished and put together LOOSELY before attaching the 2 front brackets...it can take some prying and so forth to get the bolts lined up and started. Swearing a lot seems to help.

what I found:

* there are two bushings and a steel sleeve on both ends of the swaybar.

* the 2 bushings are positioned end to end with the other, with the one to the right being to the back of the car

* the rusty metal on the left is what is left of one of the tubular split sleeves

* the narrow bushings on the left are about 1/2 the length (thickness) they should be...they have been worn down. This bushing...to the front...is 90% hard nylon with a rubber covering

* the larger bushing to the right and back of the car is solid rubber

* the washers go under the nuts and over the end plates

* these are the new parts...worth $50...and still in the plastic in order to return them

* the 2 on the left are the front ones...the 2 on the right the back ones...but they are facing the wrong way

* front bushings approx size: 1 9/16" diameter...3/4" long...rubber over nylon

* rear bushings approx size: 1 1/2" diameter...1 3/8" long...all rubber

* sleeves approx size: 9/16" ID...11/16" OD...2" long...steel (not in pic)

* top pic is cross-section of the swaybar ends...showing the nylon insert in the front bushing...the sleeve...the rear all rubber bushing.

This "joint" is designed so that the front nylon cored bushing "holds" the caster setting and the swaybar pivots vs the control arm at this nylon cored bushing.

While the nut compresses the rear all rubber bushing to keep the front bushing in place and this bushing also allows the flexibility needed.

* middle pic shows a front bracket

* bottom pic shows the swaybar end going thru the control arm

overall condtion:

* the bushings speak for themselves...if you listen closely....the ODs of these bushings looked to be pretty much original, but the IDs were worn almost 1/8" oversize.

* the rubber in the front brackets was in AOK condition except for the ends where the rubber is exposed to air...this surface was weathered...but this has no effect on their functioning. I use a plastic shim at top approx 3/64" thick to tighten them up.

* the swaybar metal under the bracket rubber is another story...the pass side surface under the bracket being rusted quite a bit....while the other side was almost OK.

* the ends of the swaybar itself where the metal is turned down and threaded....were rusted under the sleeve area...both ends

* the back part of the swaybar end bushing set tends to collect moisture...while the front doesn't....there was some rust damage at the back of the control arm opening.

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Using some of the old parts and 2 new sleeves...I made some rubber discs (1 3/4" X 3/16" rubber baler belting material) as shown top left in the first picture to build up some of the bushings and put it back together.

This snugged up the front and made a big difference in cornering and made the front feel much more solid.

Probably something those with rust problems should take a look at....it isn't purty.

If you change anything with the swaybar ends...you will have to reset the toe-in...since these bushings control the caster on the front.

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Revised: Any extra rubber disks used should be NO GREATER in diameter than the original bushings!

WHY? There is no need for them to be greater in diameter...and using them that way places unecessary stress on the swaybar ends.

Thereminator · Post by **Thereminator** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:12 pm

Really-Nice layout and explanation Takza,thanks

! Im going to take a quick~look at mine tomorrow. B)

takza · Post by **takza** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:38 am

To check the swaybar ends:

* look for play or looseness front to back...bar vs control arm

* look for the same vertically...bar vs control arm

* check to see if the front steel retainer plate is getting close to rubbing on the control arm...meaning that the front bushing has worn down

* look for deterioration of the rear bushing as seen in the picture of the used bushings

* don't start removing the sway bar unless you are serious about fixing it...though you will have to take it apart to check it's condition (READ WARNING ABOVE)...you will have to check your front toe if you take it apart and change anything.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:08 pm

I'm getting around to doing my front end pretty soon. Between 3 parts stores, I found the parts I want: Tie rod ends, ball joints, control arm bushings and sway bar end bushings (no sway bar to fram bushings). The plan is to do it all at the same time while I have the front end apart.

The front end feels pretty bad and I know for sure that the control arm bushings are shot and am guessing that the stabilizer ones are also bad (they look bad). The right inner tie rod end has about 1/4 inch of play and the other ones I'm not sure about but they aren't perfect.

Inner tie rod ends and ball joints seem to be cheap ($20 each per piece) while outer tie rod ends command $90 each. Does that sway bar bushing kit come with all of the bushings or only one side? Does it come with the sleeves? I ordered 2 kits and hope that comes with all the parts I need.

takza · Post by **takza** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:33 am

From a dealer, the 4 end bushings were $50....and 2 sleeves were around $15 US. Didn't know you could find these aftermarket (could you say WHERE?). I've only used the 2 sleeves...so far.

Looks like the front 2 frame bushings can be found aftermarket.

Might be possible to make the front nylon-cored bushing from a hard rubber caster wheel...put them on a drill and use a rasp? Or from a urethane roller skate wheel?

I'd previously replaced 2 inner tie-rod ends and one outer. Far as I can tell...ball joints and control arm bushings are OK.

My swaybar was rusted bad enough (under the bushings) that I looked for a good used one and ended up ordering one from Oregon...supposed to be in good condtion and with decent bushings. If you order one...you need to be sure you find one without the same rust problems and tell the people who take it off to use oil or a penetrant...or they might twist off the bar ends. They are not easy to find.

I can send you a list of my final candidates if you need a bar...might save some searching time.

I've got mine together right now with the old bar and when it's snug on the ends...it makes a big difference...much better cornering...solider feel.

When I redo it with the new bar...I intend to shim the ends and front bushings to be sure things are snug.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:00 pm

That dealer price is not bad. I paid about $50 for aftermarket end bushings. Should have checked the dealer. I hope my sleeves come out looking better than yours. So you ended up reusing the old bushings and returning the new ones?

Thereminator · Post by **Thereminator** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:33 pm

My local Pep Boys has aftermarket frame~bushing(zirked) and other off~the~shelf components for resonable prices

.

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:07 am

3A-C Power wrote: That dealer price is not bad.Ã‚Â I paid about $50 for aftermarket end bushings.Ã‚Â Should have checked the dealer.Ã‚Â I hope my sleeves come out looking better than yours.Ã‚Â So you ended up reusing the old bushings and returning the new ones?

I just have it put together in temp fashion till I get the new (used) swaybar....then I want to put it together right.

Hoping that this swaybar has a reasonably good set of bushings with it. Intend to rustproof the bar with the ZeroRust paint and use grease anywhere I can to stop the rust. Took the $50 worth of bushings back...might have to buy them again?

The front rubber bushings are in good condition even with 230K miles on them...will reuse them or the ones with the new bar.

Got the (new) used bar...seems to be in good condition...little rust....front frame bushings are in new condtion...end bushings show some wear...maybe 85-90% new condtion...got the bar and all bushings, bolts, etc for $60. Will shim the end bushings some...after rust proofing the bar.

Pic of new (used) bar and bushings/parts:

The shiney areas on the sleeve are worn down...reason to replace the sleeve. No serious rust in sight.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:11 pm

I picked up the bushings yesterday and it turns out they are actually the frame bushings, and thus far no parts store can supply the swaybar end bushings. Off to the dealer, I guess. I did manage to get some control arm bushings too, and plan to change all of them at the same time. I will have to figure out how to make these things some day.

For anyone's information, the swaybar frame bushings were supplied by TRW but are actually genuine Toyota parts. The bag inside the TRW box has a Toyota label on it. The same is true for wheel bearings. The dealer will charge you twice as much for exactly the same part.

russkiypenguin1 · Post by **russkiypenguin1** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:25 pm

What are those control arm frame bushings made out of? I have to replace mine for my next safety inspection and I'm hoping they're made out of polyurethane.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:16 pm

I would take those frame bushings back...the old ones that have 230K miles on them are still good...the ones that came with the bar look almost new.

End bushings are not as good as I thought, but I'll still use them with some shims.

The bushings tend to wear in 2 places...where they butt up against the retainer plates and in the center ID where they ride on the sleeve. Going to use 2 3/16" rubber disks at each end where the bushings rub against the plates and make some sheet steel tubular shims to tighten up the bushing IDs.

Bar itself is in real good shape. Have new sleeves.

As far as prices...that's about how I had it figured...Toyota wants about 2Xs what is reasonable.

3A-C Power · Post by **3A-C Power** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:04 pm

The control arm bushings are rubber with steel inner and outer sleeves. The rubber is molded in between the sleeves so it looks like the rubber actually twists when the arm moves. I wouldn't use a poly bushing here because the sway bar is pulling forwards on this arm and there has to be some compliance in the bushing.

When I did my safety inspection, they said that the bushings were shot and they should be replaced, but it wasn't an issue for passing the inspection. Now, some 2.5 years later, I'm replacing them.

I looked at my car today and found that the right front sway bar end bushing is completely rotted and the steel retainer is loose on the bar. You can't even see the bushing but there is probably something left of it. The good news is that the wheel bearing is okay.

russkiypenguin1 · Post by **russkiypenguin1** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 6:12 pm

Yeah, well one shop failed me for the bushings last year. For that matter they failed me for about 2k's worth of work. And they took 2 hours to do it?!?

Anyhow, I took it to my regular shop and they just had me replace the brake cables in the rear. I mentioned to the guy what the other shop said. He said, sure they're worn and I could give you trouble about it, but they're not that bad yet.

So I'm pretty much expecting to fail this year due to this problem. What I really don't get is neither place failed me for my shocks and let me tell you, my SR5 rides like a damn caddy, bouncing down the highway. Anyhow, it's on my list of "Critical Items to fix".

takza · Post by **takza** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:11 am

Some DECENT PRICES! I had checked with these people before and their price was not much different than the local dealer...but these prices are GOOD for new Toyota parts! Shipping won't be too much on the smaller parts.

RESULTS from a 1983 4WD wagon price request:

Stabilizer bar $87.86

Stabilizer bar bushings $5.78(2) each and $8.17(2) each

Sleeves $5.17 each

Retainers $3.39 each

Nuts $1.55 each

Stabilizer bar front frame bushings $10.07 each

Front control arm bushings $19.85 each

Manual rack and pinion bushings $7.57 and $2.92

Please call 1-800-692-6396 to order.

UPS ground freight is prepaid on all orders of $100.00 or greater
inside the continental United States.

We are Indiana's largest Toyota parts department.

<a href='http://www.toyotadiscountparts.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.toyotadiscountparts.com/</a>

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:29 am

Got the swaybar in. Used 2 extra 3/16" thick rubber disks next to the retainer plates each end to take up bushing wear....and formed some galvanized sheet metal into split tubes to go over the new sleeves to shim the space between the bushings and the sleeve. Used some grease on the bar ends to keep the rust away.

Also stripped the threads at one bolt where the swaybar attaches to the frame at the front...drilled and retapped this for a larger bolt. Need to watch not to overtorque these bolts!

Will put in new bushings if these loosen up anytime soon.