Hotter Heater Hints

keith · Post by **keith** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:21 pm

Typrus, let us know if your hoses start leaking in a month or so, and if the water pump seal goes out. I have stopped using cooling system flushes a long time ago when I began to notice that I always had trouble AFTER using them.

I once had a car blow every hose and the water pump right after using a flush, and all the hoses had been replaced only two months earlier.

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:45 am

keith wrote:Typrus, let us know if your hoses start leaking in a month or so, and if the water pump seal goes out. I have stopped using cooling system flushes a long time ago when I began to notice that I always had trouble AFTER using them.

I second this one. With an older car...you are asking for trouble using any kind of flush...most I'd use might be using distilled water with the antifreeze. Worst issues are the radiator and espec the heater core....expensive...and the core is a job.

Heat issues? Go thru the heater controls and cables....lube and adjust.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:58 am

(shrug)
If they blow out I'll be contacting Valvoline (Zerex) with ALL KINDS of happy words.

You should see the amount of white crap suspended in the system.

I plan to do a double-flush with distilled afterwards. I have 4 gallons of Distilled Water sitting in my room. I don't want any of that EDTA left in my system if I can avoid it.

Now that you've mentioned it, I'll go through and give all the hoses a good squishing for strength.

Guess I better price out hoses, eh?

Have you never seen inside of an older engine that had its coolant in it a bit too long? There is a thick coating of scale on the cylinder head water jacket in particular.

The water pump will be getting replaced anyway. Bloody thing isn't pulling its weight. Hasn't been for some time.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:41 am

keith wrote:Typrus, let us know if your hoses start leaking in a month or so, and if the water pump seal goes out. I have stopped using cooling system flushes a long time ago when I began to notice that I always had trouble AFTER using them.

I once had a car blow every hose and the water pump right after using a flush, and all the hoses had been replaced only two months earlier.

Why do you have to be right? Thermostat seal went squish... Dammit...

keith · Post by **keith** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:35 pm

If they blow out I'll be contacting Valvoline (Zerex) with ALL KINDS of happy words.

I bet you will.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:31 pm

Well, I'm an idjit. I'm sick and was still outside doing a flush on my system. Now I feel oh so much better >.<
Well, I spoke with my instructors. They said to ignore Zerex's instructions for 3-9 operating hours of running through. Said 30 minutes is more than enough, and the older the car the shorter it should have. They said 20min would have been good. I was going on 2 hours run-time, 48+ hours in the system period.
They said that the EDTA (the chelator) has a tendency to turn acidic once its reacted itself out with the deposits, thereby eating up soft rubber and organic seals. Joy.

Well, my hoses look and feel fine. However my T-stat seal-gasket-thing disintegrated. I suppose it acted as a sacrificial anode of sorts.
I hooked up a double-ended hose and absolutely blasted hose-water through the thing (don't worry, she was cool) for 10 minutes. Made a giant wet mess. Lol. By the time I was done it was coming out clear. I got casting sand amongst many other pleasant things out. No joke. Sand.

Well, after draining for some time, I decided to leave it until it warms up a bit or I feel better. I'll be changing the T-stat and water pump, as well as adding a 375watt block heater that came with the 1.5L diesel I picked up. It still works and is an in-line style. I'll have to look up installation instructions...

So yeah. Joy.

EDIT-
Hmmmm... It is an in-line non-recirculating style. With the way our setup sits (closed thermostat prevents heated coolant migrating up the system) I dunno if its a viable option or not. Hmmmmmmmm....... Anyone else have any thoughts to that extent? I'm at an impass more or less.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:44 pm

i found this flushing gizmo at princess auto that uses water and air to flush your cooling system out, worked like the cats ass at unclogging my friends water to air intercooler and intercooler rad, but not as much for tercel heater core (i guess thats not the problem with my heating system).

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:24 am

I just have a little in-line thing that hooks into a female hose end. Fits between the heater core and valve. That way, you can shut the valve and all of the water goes through the core blasting the crap through it and out through the head.... Hopefully. Our head gaskets have very small holes for water passages, so hopefully nothing gets jammed in them.
Worked great. I let it trickle through for a minute to let the block and water equalize, collecting everything until it dripped clear, then I turned the hose all the way up. Water absolutely jetted out of the rad bung and the block drain. Got some goodies out in the process though, as I mentioned.
I flushed with valve closed first, then open to clean the bypass out. We'll see how she functions when I get it all back together. I'm really hoping my hoses don't squish out. They seem fine to me, and with a pressure-flush they should be acid-free. Though, I wonder if I should run a baking-soda flush through to neutralize it all? Hmmmmmmm.......

keith · Post by **keith** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:34 pm

I believe antifreeze has a pH of around 12 which should neutralize any acid. I hope your hoses don't squish out either, but keep us informed if they do. BTW, I used to use Prestone Super Flush until I began to notice that I always had problems right after. Now I never flush and hardly ever have problems, though the Terc's cooling system has a nagging little leak since I put in the 4AC. Now it appears to be the gasket between the top tank and the radiator core. Been using AutoZone radiators, paid for the first, they buy the rest for me. I'm on the third now, you'd think they would learn how to make them by now.

New info, I think I found it, the upper radiator hose clamp wasn't tight enough.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:13 am

Typrus wrote:I just have a little in-line thing that hooks into a female hose end. Fits between the heater core and valve.

That plastic fitting will crack and leak if it is under much stress... wouldn't leave it in there...maybe replace it with something metal? Otherwise...using those is the best flush method I know of.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:30 pm

I don't have anything 5/8" to put in there... And I'm not precisely in a good time for $$... This is a frustrating thing at this point.... If something happens I'll rant and rave and buy a new full piece of hose... Then splice a new thing into a hose off of the other car and have it be swappable for flushes.

Well, my instructors said they are great as long as you don't follow their directions to a t. So 20 min operating time for the cleaner would be good. Maybe 5 min for those 10 minute flushes? Or just 3 doses of distilled water (straight) run for a half hour each and drained. Then use distilled water to dilute the antifreeze to prevent new deposits.

I'll be doing the timing belt while I'm at it. I had a kit for the green meanie I'm building, but I figure I ought to do it in this one, seeing as how I dunno how long its been since its been done and I don't want to get stranded with a snapped belt. Hopefully the 2-arm puller Advance gave me will work. If it hurts my Harmonic Balancer they better damned well buy me a new one. Those suckers are something like $130. Shouldn't be a problem though.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:24 am

Typrus wrote:I don't have anything 5/8" to put in there... And I'm not precisely in a good time for $$... This is a frustrating thing at this point.... If something happens I'll rant and rave and buy a new full piece of hose... Then splice a new thing into a hose off of the other car and have it be swappable for flushes.

I had one in the heater hose on my Tercel and happened to catch the crack in the plastic before I got out on the road. If it cracks and opens up...you'll overheat before you know it? No lights or warning bells go off that I know of. Any chunk of copper or steel would do.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:20 am

Well, now I have more lovely issues....
A bolt snapped off in the pump housing. Tried to drill it out, but no good. Like someone welded it in. Should I get a slightly longer bolt and try to fit a nut behind it? Dunno. It looked like there was room but I dunno if it was that much.
The upper hose had several internal cracks. Dunno if that just happened or if they've been there. Not worth risking.
Lower hose had several bulges. Kind of like a faulty tire. Had to order it in.

Took the housing out (now I have to hunt down an illusive gasket to the heater core pipe and those 2 o-rings... I think Parts America has them as a Felpro set) and now I'll either have to nut the part or put in my 84 housing. Thats another part to hunt down when the green meanie gets done. (sigh)

Also.. I think my cam timing was off. Why? With the cam pulley aligned with the bearing cap as described in the FSM, the witness marks on the crank T-pulley and oil housing are off my about 5-10 degrees advanced. Should I set it back? I dunno.

This is a cascade of joy. Lol...

keith · Post by **keith** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:44 pm

Definitely get your valve timing correct. You can use the ignition timing mark instead of the witness marks on the timing gear and oil pump housing. Put it at TDC, them align the cam gear so you can see the mark on the head through the hole on the gear.

The o-rings can be found in the generic o ring box that AutoZone keeps behind the counter. Just take the parts in with you and fit them there. You can also cut out your own gasket from a sheet of gasket material. I don't know what I'd do without it.

In fact I just used some this weekend to fix the horn in the Tercel.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:35 pm

I bought 2.5mm thick 13mm ID O-Rings from Ace as well as a tap and stainless bolt to put in it. I'll threadlocker it. Dunno if I should anti-seize the others? I don't want them coming loose but I definitely don't want them rusting either....

Got the belts and hoses today as well.

The gasket came in a Felpro box from Checker. Came with 2 large o-rings as well. Dunno what they are for. Was called the water pump housing mounting kit. Didn't have the pump itself's thing though. Didn't need that.