New wheels!

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ARCHINSTL
Goldie Forever
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
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Re: New wheels!

Post by ARCHINSTL » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:22 pm

They look nice, and I must admit that the gold nuts look better than I would have guessed.
I went with 185/60 on the new Daisy wheels, as it looked like the 195s would rub. OK clearance, huh?
Tom M.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: New wheels!

Post by Petros » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:37 pm

no rubbing at all, I was going to mention that but forgot. Also, recently got to test it out on heavy rain soaked asphalt roads, and it stops frighteningly fast even on wet asphalt. With the MR2 brakes and new tires I could not even get the tires to skid, everything in the car slide forward hard, good thing no was was behind me when I tested it. I want to get some measures of 60-0 stopping distance. If I can get it much below 140 feet (dry pavement) I would consider that outstanding, Road and Track test that in '84 model as 154 feet on a new car (they rated that as 'very good').

Knowing how pathetic the stock brake and tire set up was it only confirms my opinion that the stock set-up is not really safe, especially in wet weather.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
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blade
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My tercel:: No tercel. (stolen)
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Re: New wheels!

Post by blade » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:54 am

ya the stock setup is sad i was driving my 1987 tercel down eastside road and it was pooring and i was doing 100km's tryed to stop for a deer and got the car on three whels but still took a long tome to stop the dam thing these brakes suck

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Petros
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Re: New wheels!

Post by Petros » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:00 pm

stock brakes and tires suck, too small.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
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Re: New wheels!

Post by SynthDesign » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:04 pm

Petros,
What do you think is best general aftermarket tire size and wheel for our stock rigs? 14's? 15's?

With a boost and HP, what do you think is the max with tire I can comfortably run? A 205/50/15 BS RE11 fits with a 38mm offset on a 7". Think I could fit a 225/45/15 Pirrelli Tarmac Rally (requires an 8" wide rim) with a 15", 45mm offset?
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85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

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Petros
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Re: New wheels!

Post by Petros » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:50 pm

If I did not drive rough gravel roads daily I would go to a 15" wheel with a 50 or 55 series tire. That low of a tire would get damaged on my roads, so I went with the 14s as a compromise. One thing to consider for us here in PNW, those really low profile tires have greatly improved handling and stopping power on dry roads, but their wet weather performance is really bad (I guess they want to hydroplane). A quality conventional 60 series tires performs much better on wet roads, and so that also made my choice to go with 14" wheels. I am happy with my set-up, the 185/60x14 is exactly the same rolling dia at the stock tire, I went with 195/60x14 which is about .4" larger rolling dia, it gives a larger contact patch and fills the wheel well nicely, and does not affect the speed much (about 1 mph at 50 mph).

I have notices a slight contact in one condition, hitting a bump on a fast right hand turn, the left front tire give me a mild scrape inside the fender. Not bad, and I have to take a look, it might be something I can trim or alter. It does not hit hard enough to cause an issues. I suspect it is hitting the fender liner near the lip, wider tires would make worse contact at this location.

Not sure of max size that would fit, it will likely rub somewhere during wheel travel/turning, once you get past a certain point in size. Likely there is a lot of inner parts of the fender than can be altered with a torch or hammer that will not affect external appearance.

I think the really large wheels with really low profile tires start to look silly, like a tonka toy. Interesting that I do not notice any of the racers using really low profile tires.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Abletobecain
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Re: New wheels!

Post by Abletobecain » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:22 pm

I keep pulling up old threads but this is where my search for new shoes took me!

Petros...where did you get that spoiler? Is it modified from a different vehicle? It looks awesome.
1977 BMW R100S 1WD ("Brunhilda"/Summer Fun)
2007 Tundra Limited Crewmax 4x4 ("Tetsuo Shima"/Hauler) SOLD :cry:
1983 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Charlie"/Daily Driver)
1987 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Sprocket"/Off-road-Camping)
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Petros
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Re: New wheels!

Post by Petros » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:07 pm

it is home made. it is just a piece of 1/8" or 3/16" ABS plastic that I cut out from a cardboard pattern. I used a heat gun to turn down the ends to match the hatch corners. than used two sided foam tape to hold it on. It kind of updates the look at the rear hatch like the newer cars. could not tell if it reduced drag at all, but it did seem to allow more dust accumulation on the back window.

Easy to make, but too time consuming to make them to sell at a reasonable profit.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Abletobecain
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Re: New wheels!

Post by Abletobecain » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:58 am

Well it sure looks great. I just got a heatgun for various projects...might have to try it out.
1977 BMW R100S 1WD ("Brunhilda"/Summer Fun)
2007 Tundra Limited Crewmax 4x4 ("Tetsuo Shima"/Hauler) SOLD :cry:
1983 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Charlie"/Daily Driver)
1987 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Sprocket"/Off-road-Camping)
1985 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Lucky"/Project)
1983 SR5 Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Cadaver"/Parts Car)
1987 DLX Tercel Wagon 4WD ("Lil Red"/for sale soon)

The Professor
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Re: New wheels!

Post by The Professor » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:38 am

Petros wrote:
Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:50 pm
One thing to consider for us here in PNW, those really low profile tires have greatly improved handling and stopping power on dry roads, but their wet weather performance is really bad (I guess they want to hydroplane). A quality conventional 60 series tires performs much better on wet roads, and so that also made my choice to go with 14" wheels.

I think the really large wheels with really low profile tires start to look silly, like a tonka toy. Interesting that I do not notice any of the racers using really low profile tires.
How does having a taller sidewall help prevent hydroplaning? I would argue that is a function of tread width, tire circumference and tread pattern more than sidewall height. Hydroplaning occurs when water cannot be evacuated from the tire tread fast enough to keep in contact with the road surface. All things being equal, a more narrow tire will slice through water to the road surface, like a pizza cutter. This logic is why rally cars use very narrow studded tires in snow/ice racing. A taller tire will have a more shallow angle of approach as it rolls over the standing water, creating a smaller wedge of water compared to a shorter tire. Lastly, having a tread pattern with multiple circumferential grooves helps to evacuate water, although tread patterns have a lot of cosmetic design thrown in too.

The only instance I can see sidewall height playing a factor is on a bumpy, wet road with stiff suspension where the tire sidewall can't act as a pneumatic spring and the oscillation of the road surface is enough to jar the tire loose, allowing water to build a wedge.

I agree that many 70's and 80's imported cars don't look good with anything larger than a 15 or mayyyybe a 16" wheel. My '87 RX has 16s and I wouldn't go any larger.

Petros, you don't think racers run low profile tires?! Really? The Toyota TS050 Hybrid that won Le Mans this year runs 31/71-18 tires, which translates roughly to a 310/40/18 in metric. Look up some British touring cars or DTM cars, they run unbelievably small sidewalls, and wheel diameter doesn't change even if the race is run in the rain.
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Petros
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Re: New wheels!

Post by Petros » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:00 pm

The Professor wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:38 am


How does having a taller sidewall help prevent hydroplaning? I would argue that is a function of tread width, tire circumference and tread pattern more than sidewall height.
it is a fact discovered by testing on real cars on a race track. It has nothing to do with any intelectural theory on tire designs.

A few years ago one of the car magazines did a major tire review, using 4 or 5 diffrent type of cars (sports car, SUV, family sedan, compact, etc) from several manufacturers. and they tested about 40 brands of tires on both wet and dry asphalt for stopping distance, slalom, lateral Gs, etc. it was a rather impressive test.

On performance, there were some that did better than others on the different cars/vehicles, and tire sizes. but ALL of the large wheel/very low profile tires did very good, the best in fact, on dry pavement. BUT all of them suffered major increase in stopping distance on wet roads over 60 series tires. It was alarmingly bad. Since it is wet most of the year around here, and the really low profile tires (and the big wheels) are so much more costly (strike two), I decided I was staying with 14" wheels and 60 series tires.

Another thing is I know from personal experience, when on rough rutted roads, gravel roads, and in construction sites, etc. the really low profile tires are far more subject to side wall damage from getting pinched against the rim. those tires are too costly to risk that, since I drive roads like that to get home. and regularly go on rough roads and construction sites. Strike three. Not buying any.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

The Professor
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Re: New wheels!

Post by The Professor » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:41 am

Petros wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:00 pm
A few years ago one of the car magazines did a major tire review, using 4 or 5 diffrent type of cars (sports car, SUV, family sedan, compact, etc)

Another thing is I know from personal experience, when on rough rutted roads, gravel roads, and in construction sites, etc. the really low profile tires are far more subject to side wall damage from getting pinched against the rim. those tires are too costly to risk that, since I drive roads like that to get home. and regularly go on rough roads and construction sites. Strike three. Not buying any.
I would love to read that tire test, if you can remember who administered it.

As far as your last comment on rough roads, I 100% agree, low profile tires don't belong off-road. Although I did drive my lowered WRX on 235/45/17s up to the peak of Hart's Pass last year, so it can be done easily without tire damage. :D
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon
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1987 Subaru RX 3-door
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teranfirbt
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Re: New wheels!

Post by teranfirbt » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:06 am

Since hydroplaning is the tire contact patch physically lifting off the road due to inability to pump water fast enough, it's entirely a function of tread depth, tread pattern, and most importantly, tire pressure. Increased tire pressure is a huge benefit for resisting hydroplaning as the tire will deform less when it is subjected to the force of pumping water out of the way. Wider tires will also have a tendency to hydroplane more due to the fact that there's more unsupported tread between the sidewalls.

As for wet braking and traction, that's more of a function of tire compound than anything else. Down here in TX I had a horrible time with my Tercel locking tires on Tigerpaw AWP tires, but when I switched to the current General RT43 that are on it now, wet braking and traction was significantly improved (same sizes). My Hyundai runs on 17's and doesn't exhibit hydroplaning or traction issues in any more than my Tercel on 14's.

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NWMO
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Re: New wheels!

Post by NWMO » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:28 am

Hey fellas,

Interesting link related to discussion: consumer reports
Style is fueling most of that growth. But retailers also point to more cornering grip and handling. The larger the wheel, the shorter the tire's sidewall and the wider its tread must be to maintain the same outside tire diameter and prevent reducing the tire's load-carrying capacity. The shorter and wider the tire, the better the handling and cornering grip.

Some plus-size wheels and tires live up to their image. Our tests of plus-one, plus-two, and plus-three wheels with common-model tires show that increasing wheel diameter 1 inch—or one plus size—offers the greatest benefit in overall performance. After that, you're likely to pay for small gains in grip and handling with big losses in ride comfort, hydroplaning resistance, and snow traction.
Chris
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T4WD augury?
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Petros
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Re: New wheels!

Post by Petros » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:01 pm

The Professor wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:41 am
I would love to read that tire test, if you can remember who administered it.
it was in a tire store while I was waiting to get new tires mounted, in their stack of reading material. I think it was Car and Driver mag. but I can not be sure. I looked on line and they have an article about a tire comparison test, but do not show the tabulated results on line.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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