'84 WAGON REBUILD

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Yaut
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by Yaut » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:19 am

NWMO

Great to hear from another local. I would love to meet other members. Let me know if you're going to be in Springfield area and want to meet sometime.

I agree that a body lift is not out of the question. The biggest issue I see is that after I did a lift and installed 205/70/15 tires, there is no more room between the front of the rear wheel well and the back of the passenger door to install any larger of a tire without a serious modification of the door/fender or somehow sliding the rear axle back slightly.
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
'84 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD (red)

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Yaut
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by Yaut » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:23 am

The Professor wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:11 am
The engine mounts on the T4WD bolt to the engine crossmember (transmission has a crossmember too, IIRC). If you add lift blocks to the mounting points of those crossmembers you are not lifting the engine or drivetrain, they remain in the same place, in relation to the wheels/brakes/CVs/etc. Basically, any place the suspension or crossmember bolts to the unibody, you add a spacer. Spacers on top of the front strut mounts (doesn't matter if there isn't an upper ball joint, the upper strut mount is rubber isolated, a poor man's upper ball joint)./quote]


Ah, makes sense.
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
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LowBuckCanuck
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My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:07 am

The Professor wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:11 am
LowBuckCanuck wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:07 am
The Professor wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:44 am
Stock suspension angles, stock CV angles
5098dd1ca1334c992572cacf122821bb.jpg
92810071990120.jpg
Terrible photos to compare, I can't even see the control arms in that dealer promo photo.
I agree, Google failed me. However I am highly dubious of the claims that the lifted wagon is running stock cv angles. If the CVs are that angled from factory, they must be either really well made axles, or a really poor design.

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Yaut
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My tercel:: 1985 Toyota Tercel 4WD automatic, lifted 1.5", 15 inch wheels

Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by Yaut » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:26 am

One of the benefits of a body lift is to maintain axle angles. A body lift would be easier on the C/Vs than a suspension lift but is a whole lot more work on Tercels. Indeed a stock Tercel C/V axles can not handle much angle deflection.
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (tan)
'85 Toyota Tercel DLX 4WD (white)
'84 Toyota Tercel SR5 4WD (red)

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NWMO
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by NWMO » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:50 am

Professor,
The engine mounts on the T4WD bolt to the engine crossmember (transmission has a crossmember too, IIRC). If you add lift blocks to the mounting points of those crossmembers you are not lifting the engine or drivetrain, they remain in the same place, in relation to the wheels/brakes/CVs/etc. Basically, any place the suspension or crossmember bolts to the unibody, you add a spacer. Spacers on top of the front strut mounts (doesn't matter if there isn't an upper ball joint, the upper strut mount is rubber isolated, a poor man's upper ball joint).
Thank you for the correction, I was forgetting the motor mounts landed on the cross-memeber (and it's only been a couple of months.) So, the largest challenge would be lengthening the suspension members that attach to the sub-frame. I know when I put the Pathfinder springs on the rear, it pulled the rear wheels slightly forward, any real lift and it would pull into the rear door before long. But, I remember looking at the "trailing arm" or whatever that member is called, and thinking it wouldn't be out of the question to lengthen if needed, though I would want it heckka stout for safety sake. I'm quite certain I will never live where it snows enough for the added height to be necessary for a daily driver. We are getting a few inches today and most of us "southerners" comparatively speaking, are ready for spring.

I've not dug into Barto's lift, but he likely had to complete some the these modifications, as his rig had some height. Good sledding.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

The Professor
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My tercel:: 1987 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by The Professor » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:06 am

As I said, I'm really unfamiliar with the T4WD, having only been underneath mine twice in the last several years. If there is no subframe capturing the rear axle's linkages, then yes, you would need to extend the linkages in the rear. This could actually be done fairly easily using heim-joints and thick walled steel tubing You could even throw a turnbuckle in the middle and have adjustable-length links.

LowBuckCanuk - I didn't mean to come across as gruff, and for all I know that particular wagon may very well have some spring lift in the front. Or it could be the angle of the photo, or the front end could have just come off a hi-lift.

I'll see if I can come up with a better photo.
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon & Turbo-Traction hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door, x2
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan
2019 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited

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NWMO
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by NWMO » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:23 am

If there is no subframe capturing the rear axle's linkages, then yes, you would need to extend the linkages in the rear. This could actually be done fairly easily using heim-joints and thick walled steel tubing You could even throw a turnbuckle in the middle and have adjustable-length links.
Hey Professor,

There is a part of the sub-frame that the rear axle links bolt to, but it is permanently part of the sub frame. Unfortunately, it is one of the rust-issue areas as well. I gave consideration to the turn-buckle concept, but was concerned about the loss of strength. The current links are solid steel and take most/nearly all of the force when hitting a pot hole, etc. going down the road. I didn't feel like taking the time to tackle the modification at that point. I would think a person could cut the existing link in the middle and add the turnbuckle, IF they could thread the two ends with sufficient strength. It may be better to find the desired length and actually extend the link by cutting and welding a pipe section of sufficient size over both cut ends to get the desired length.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

The Professor
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My tercel:: 1987 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by The Professor » Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:46 am

This sort of suspension arm is done in the aftermarket all the time and are plenty strong for a 2,200 lb station wagon, having been designed to slide sideways in a 400+ bhp, 3,300 lb, AWD road car.

Could go with the turnbuckle style:
Image

Or have the ends adjustable:
Image
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon & Turbo-Traction hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door, x2
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan
2019 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited

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LowBuckCanuck
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My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:02 am

Making longer trailing arms would be very simple if you trust your welding skills. Some solid 3/4" round bar with machined end "tubes" welded on both ends would probably be plenty strong enough.

I don't think the stock trailing arms even have heim joints, but the addition of them would likely help add articulation.

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Petros
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by Petros » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:52 pm

Ebay is full of suspension parts like that, much cheaper than name brand. Many come from the orient for Hondas or Corolla mods. you just need to find something about the right size, with an adjustable link, you should be able to make it work if you shop carefully. the RWD corolla has a big following, and active mod community. Suspension up grade/adjustable parts are available for the RWD corolla. the suspend links for the rear axle are almost identical to the rear axle on the T4wd, you should be able to find something that will work.

I discovered this looking at an adjustable lateral link for a honda civic rear suspension. Alignment shop told me they can not adjust the rear suspension, but they can retro fit in adjustable links (for a hefty fee). I looked it up, for much less than the alignment shop wanted I could buy on ebay decent adjustable lines from domestic suppliers (like $30 each), or really cheap Chinese made knock off for about $14 each. That is what got me thinking about the rear suspension on the Tercel4wd.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

señor.tercel4wd
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by señor.tercel4wd » Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:17 pm

Could try begging/annoying Moog to make trailing arms.

https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/s ... icle=19482

It takes a village...
'83 Tercel SR5 Wagon Overland Build Thread >>> viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14880

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NWMO
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by NWMO » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:49 am

Hey All,

Still considering trying to tackle a "body" lift some day. Has anybody looked into Camry lower control arms and how they compare to the Tercel's? I used heavier springs and have about 2" of lift now without issue, but I assume an additional 2" (or so) body lift would require modification of the front lower control arms to provide added length and adjust the ball joint angle.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Control-Arm-Ki ... 2863588887

TIA,

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by Petros » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:08 pm

I would be surprised if the camry lower arms interchange with the tercel ones, that is a much heavier car.

the closest ones i have seen are from the first gen MR2, they are very similar, but not the same. that car has similar size components and weighs about the same as the T4wd.

BTW, I would advise against using the heim joints (spherical rod ends), these are strong and precisely control the suspension for improved road handling, but it would right hard and wear out very quickly on the street. dust and grit gets into them and they wear away very fast. they are designed for use on a race track. the factory rubber suspention bushings lasts several hundred thousand miles, and allow for a much less harsh ride.

besides, you can not replace the single largest rubber bushing anyway, the one on the end of the anti-sway bar that holds the lower lateral link or arm in place on the front suspension. they are just two large rubber doughnuts, and allow a lot of flex in the suspension movement. putting metal heim joints on all the other suspension components would not improve handling as much since that big squishy bushing would still be there on the front.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

The Professor
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by The Professor » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:45 am

I was only suggesting using heim joints on the rear axle trailing links and Panhard rod. You can get sealed heim joints that should outlast the factory rubber bushings, though ride comfort may be compromised.

Here is one example:
Image
1975 Subaru SuperStar wagon
1984 Subaru Turbo-Traction wagon & Turbo-Traction hardtop
1987 Subaru RX 3-door, x2
1987 Subaru RX Type-RA 3-door
1987 Toyota Tercel SR5 wagon
1999 Subaru Forester S
2002 Subaru WRX sedan
2019 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: '84 WAGON REBUILD

Post by Petros » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:00 pm

wow, that is great. I did not know something like that was available, but I suppose it would last only a little longer than the rubber boot. Good to know, just in case I ever want to build a street racer.

I have been to a lot of car shows where I see people putting spherical bearings all over their suspension (I think they just got the replacement parts out of a race catalog and they thought it looked cool). I have never seen a sealed one on any of these street cars. That is a silly modes to do on a street car, particularly since they had stupid tire/wheel combo set ups, again for looks. if they really wanted to improve the handling there was a lot of other things that need to be done before the heim joints.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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