Fixing Up Jenny

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by Petros » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:37 am

I see the confusion, you all are using incorrect terminology.

for the record, there is no such thing as an "inner tie rod" on a Tercel.

There is an inner tie rod "end" (it is a ball and socket type of end), there are inner and outer tie rod "ends". there is no inner or outer tie rods on a Tercel.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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LowBuckCanuck
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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:32 am
My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:07 am

Petros wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:37 am
I see the confusion, you all are using incorrect terminology.

for the record, there is no such thing as an "inner tie rod" on a Tercel.

There is an inner tie rod "end" (it is a ball and socket type of end), there are inner and outer tie rod "ends". there is no inner or outer tie rods on a Tercel.
"Tie rod" is a reasonable abbreviation of "tie rod end", no?

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by Petros » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:33 pm

LowBuckCanuck wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:07 am
"Tie rod" is a reasonable abbreviation of "tie rod end", no?
No. the tie rod end is a different part from the actual tie rod.

The word "tie rod" itself has a different function than the rod end.

please use consistent terminology or we can not communicate.

"Rod end" as in "inner rod end" would be a better abbreviation. Less confusion. the "end" is actually a ball and socket pivot, not a rod at all.

It is one of those annoying things mechanics have to try and decipher when people ask about car diagnosis and repairs. One term I hear I find especially frustrating is that people use this word very differently, they say the car will not "turn over". sometimes they mean it will not crank, sometimes they mean it will crank but will not start. I usually give a snarky reply like "I hope the car does not turn over, it would be hard on the paint and body work, it really was not designed for that kind of abuse". the engine does not "turn over" either, if it did it would do terrible damage to the engine mounts, wires and axles.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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LowBuckCanuck
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Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:32 am
My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:52 pm

Petros wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:33 pm
LowBuckCanuck wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:07 am
"Tie rod" is a reasonable abbreviation of "tie rod end", no?
No. the tie rod end is a different part from the actual tie rod.

The word "tie rod" itself has a different function than the rod end.

please use consistent terminology or we can not communicate.

"Rod end" as in "inner rod end" would be a better abbreviation. Less confusion. the "end" is actually a ball and socket pivot, not a rod at all.

It is one of those annoying things mechanics have to try and decipher when people ask about car diagnosis and repairs. One term I hear I find especially frustrating is that people use this word very differently, they say the car will not "turn over". sometimes they mean it will not crank, sometimes they mean it will crank but will not start. I usually give a snarky reply like "I hope the car does not turn over, it would be hard on the paint and body work, it really was not designed for that kind of abuse". the engine does not "turn over" either, if it did it would do terrible damage to the engine mounts, wires and axles.
Well anyways, my tie rods are great and no longer need attention.

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dlb
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My tercel:: none currently, 7 previous
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Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by dlb » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:27 pm

You're being really anal, Peter.

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by Petros » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:56 pm

dlb wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:27 pm
You're being really anal, Peter.
Perhaps, but using terminology is important if you expect to communicate complex information. we need to be talking the same language to be understood.

I think these days it is easy to get by with a limited vocabulary and sloppy grammar because it is not usually important for most people, and the darn schools nor do parents stress proper grammar any more (in fact, I would add that most parents do not know proper gramar anymore either).

I always want to be understood, allway try to be accurate. I have made by living as a engineer and much of that work requires detailed technical report. Right now for example, I am under a subpoena to give a deposition on a project I worked on 4 years ago, they also are subpoenaing all of my records and communications with my client regarding that project. it is litigation over a $1.5 million custom home on a water front bluff, the complainant wants to prove that my work on this project was sub standard. They will not be able to of course, they hired an illiterate engineer to review my work (who I think is grossly negligent and is irresponsible in his review of my reports). But right now an army of lawyers is going over everything I wrote line by line looking to support their ridiculous claims. My client's attorney even told me this morning that he wants to apologies on behalf of all judges and attorneys in the country for the amount abuse this gang is putting on both the legal system and on all builders and property owners in the state. Even though no one is "injured", the house is perfectly safe and has been since it was completed years ago, they claim it is unsafe and endangers their own holdings. They have no evidence of it of course, but they sued the building department, the current owner (who had nothing to do with it), and the builder for building an "unsafe" residence.

So in all of my writing I ALWAYS attempt to be accurate and clear, because this kind of thing unfortunately happens regularly in any business.

my client's attorney says if they succeed, it will prevent any builder from building on any hill, because no building department can issue permits that can meet their unspecified threshold they are demanding. BTW, the lower court threw it out as an absurd claim, but they appealed it and some fool appellant judge thought the case had merit (the laws regulating construction were apparently not relevant to him). they will likely also loose, and likely appeal it again. I will be defending my work on this one project long into my retirement.

So, yes, I am anal about proper terminology. :evil:
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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LowBuckCanuck
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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:32 am
My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:34 am

As the road salt washes away, it is time to wake Jenny from her winter slumber. First order of business was to replace the leaking gas tank with a slightly used unit from my parts car. It looks a bit rough at first, but the wire wheel revealed that it is solid metal throughout. I painted it with brush on rustoleum primer, then truck bed liner. Turned out nice.
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LowBuckCanuck
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My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Fri May 01, 2020 9:08 am

After changing out the gas tank, I had an issue with the fuel gauge not reading properly (just above empty on a full tank). A tough pill to swallow considering that a replacement sending unit is like $300 or so on rock auto. Luckily for me, the problem was solved by taking the sending unit out and putting it back in the exact same way. Which is strange. I can only assume that because the unit was installed into an empty tank the float became wedged against the bottom, or something to that effect. Once there was gas in the tank the float's buoyancy prevented that. Just putting this out there in case someone has a similar issue.


Next up for Jenny is installing a tilt steering column from an '87 that was in the back of my parts car. Anything I should know before I jump in? Is there any preventative maintenance I should do while I've got it apart? Thanks.

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Petros
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Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by Petros » Fri May 01, 2020 8:02 pm

LowBuckCanuck wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 9:08 am
Next up for Jenny is installing a tilt steering column from an '87 that was in the back of my parts car. Anything I should know before I jump in? Is there any preventative maintenance I should do while I've got it apart? Thanks.
you will need to replace not just the steering column, mount and plastic cover, but also the short link with the u-joints between the steering column end and the rack. it is a different length, and has different ends that are not interchangage with the earlier style. these u-joints should be lubricated if possible to make them last longer. heavy grease is best, but any gear oil you can get past the seal will be beneficial.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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splatterdog
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Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by splatterdog » Sat May 02, 2020 10:00 am

Not sure if 87 is different but I put an 85 column in an 84 and it was plug and play even with the slightly different u-joint end.

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by Petros » Sat May 02, 2020 9:19 pm

splatterdog wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:00 am
Not sure if 87 is different but I put an 85 column in an 84 and it was plug and play even with the slightly different u-joint end.
yes, that will work as long as you switch over all the parts between the spline shaft on the rack, and the steering wheel. that was my point, the short length of shaft with the u-joint is different for the '85-88 tilt steering and the older '83-84 non tilt steering.

I was at a picknpull many years ago where there was a T4wd with the whole steering system in place, I was getting the rack as a spare, and it occured to me to get the rest of the tilt steering set up to install in my '84. but I like where the steering wheel is on my car, relative to my hands and body, so I did not see a reason to go to the extra work, but it will all bolt over.

it was a federal safety requirement to make the steering adjustable to the height of different size drivers (moving the seat back and forward, and up and down, was no longer enough to satisfy the feds). I do not need it, so I skipped it.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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LowBuckCanuck
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Posts: 345
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:32 am
My tercel:: 1986 DLX 4wd Wagon "Jenny"

Re: Fixing Up Jenny

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Sun May 03, 2020 11:20 pm

you wrote:

"I'm not completely sure I understand... My car is an '86 without tilt steering, so does that mean the short shaft is the same or different for the '87 tilt column?"

yes, those should interchange as long as you replace all of the parts together, one to the other.

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