Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post about yourself, your Tercel, or your Tercel projects in here, share pictures of your Tercel, or post trip threads!
User avatar
marlinh
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 1584
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:15 am
My tercel:: 'Everett' Blue 87 4WD Wagon (Rocky 86, recently retired)
Location: Kootenays

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by marlinh »

Great score! Nice looking car.

The cam timing looks correct on your photo. You may not have a blown head gasket with those numbers. Why are you still taking it apart?

When you are checking the timing with a timing light it is common to paint a mark for the crankshaft so you can see it.
User avatar
dhally
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:07 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Wagon 4wd
Location: Kennewick, WA

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by dhally »

marlinh wrote:Great score! Nice looking car.

The cam timing looks correct on your photo. You may not have a blown head gasket with those numbers. Why are you still taking it apart?

When you are checking the timing with a timing light it is common to paint a mark for the crankshaft so you can see it.
OK, thanks for confirming I probably have the right camshaft timing. I've never actually tried to drive the car. The previous owner stated that it would only go 40 mph on his last trip in the car, which ended in his Mom's pasture. I probably won't keep taking it apart at this point. With all the advice I've received on this forum, I think my best course of action is to put it back together and start running it.



The only other thing I noticed is the heat pipe from the exhaust manifold to the intake duct is missing. Do I need to replace this, and does anybody know the size of it?
User avatar
irowiki
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 3463
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:02 am
Location: Farmington, NM

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by irowiki »

You don't have to worry about that right now.
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)

Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!

87 Corolla FX16, 105k
94 Jamboree RV (Ford E-350), 90k
95 Camry Wagon, 170k
97 4runner, 275k
User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by Petros »

that is the tube that direct warm air from around the exhaust manifold into the intake to maintain intake air temp. I have mine disabled anyway, it will not affect drivability unless you have carb icing conditions from extreme cold running. should not affect daily driving in most instances, but you can buy a generic replacement tube at most auto parts stores.

your head gasket is likely fine (and it would not be the first time a mechanic was very wrong, or he did not want to work on it so gave him a cost to fix that was more than he figured the car is worth). If the cam timing checks out, than check spark timing. It might be the mechanical spark advance is not working (stuck), so the timing does not advance. this would make it gutless as you pick up speed. easy test with a timing light, which you will need to verify it was set properly. You can also check the mechanical advance by removing the distributor cap and twist the rotor to see if it advances, and than springs back on its own. It is also possible the distributor was installed a tooth off and he could not get the spark timing correct.

A partially plugged fuel filter would also run normal at low speed, but as you pick up speed the fuel supply partially blocked and is inadequate to go faster. That is a cheap and easy fix, which should be done anyway on an car with an unknown age. Same could be true with a badly plugged air filter, though that is less common.

good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
User avatar
dhally
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:07 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Wagon 4wd
Location: Kennewick, WA

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by dhally »

Update and more help requested...

I changed out the air filter, fuel filter, and PCV valve, and got all the doors and windows working (needed a new driver's regulator). Then I drove it around a bit. It starts and runs OK, and the transmission shifts well (auto).

Problems
- There is an oil "seep" around the front main seal. Doesn't actually drip but there was a lot of oily dirt in that area. I couldn't clean under the crank pulley for fear of contaminating the timing belt.
- The air filter was really black, looked like it was sucking in oil mist.

Is there another crankcase vent I should clean out in addition to replacing the PCV valve? I'm wondering if the crankcase is getting pressurized, causing the main seal oil seep.

Any ideas?

More pictures.

All the parts were oily/dirty - needed a bath
Image

Image

Image
User avatar
irowiki
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 3463
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:02 am
Location: Farmington, NM

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by irowiki »

Did you replace the front main seal and camshaft seal yet?

You don't need to be so paranoid about "contaminating" the timing belt either, I've had tercels with no timing covers, timing covers missing the seals, timing covers with oil pooling inside, and they did just fine. The material they make timing belts out of is much better than 35 years ago.
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)

Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!

87 Corolla FX16, 105k
94 Jamboree RV (Ford E-350), 90k
95 Camry Wagon, 170k
97 4runner, 275k
User avatar
dhally
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:07 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Wagon 4wd
Location: Kennewick, WA

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by dhally »

No I didn't. If I replace them, and the crankcase isn't ventilated properly, will the new seals get damaged?
User avatar
irowiki
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 3463
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:02 am
Location: Farmington, NM

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by irowiki »

The crank case is fine. You probably just have old rotted seals.
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)

Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!

87 Corolla FX16, 105k
94 Jamboree RV (Ford E-350), 90k
95 Camry Wagon, 170k
97 4runner, 275k
User avatar
Petros
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 11930
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:31 pm
My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by Petros »

high crank case pressure causes the oil filter to get filled with motor oil, and can cause the seals to leak. easy test is to remove the dip stick while it is running, you would get a blast of gases out of it.

If that is the problem, than it likely needs new piston rings. but before you do that give it a good Seafoam treatment, both in the crankcase and down the intake. it is designed to remove gunk build up from around the rings, than can limit the rings ability to seal. sometimes it works.

if not the only solution is to pull the engine and do a rebuild, or at the very least, a re-ring job.

If you have lots of oil in the coolant, that is the sign of a bad head gaskets, though it is far more common to get coolant in the oil (looks like chocolate milk on the dip stick).

BTW, a compression test is may not show a bad head gasket, sometimes the coolant can leak out and it will show normal on a compression check. OTOH, if one cylinder has very low compression the head has to come off no matter the cause, could be gasket, or bad valve, or something more serious. but the engine has to come apart to fix it.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
User avatar
Mark
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 883
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:49 pm
My tercel:: 1984 Automatic, 1981 sedan
Location: Victoria, B.C.

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by Mark »

The black build-up on your air filter seems like it's on the outside (upstream) of the filter. Doesn't the PCV system draw air from the inside of the filter? So if the crankcase was pressurized, the oil would back up this hose into the inside of the filter. It looks like your air filter is dirty in one spot (maybe where it faced the intake ducting). I'd guess it was previously run in a very dirty environment. If your crankcase was pressurized, you'd probably see wet oil on the inside of the filter around one of the holes where the PCV hose plugs into. I'd also expect to see smoking from the exhaust if it was really bad. The front crankshaft seal oil leak is normal on cars this old that probably haven't had the seal replaced in a while (if ever). It's leaking on my wagon. So far I'm putting off replacing it. The leak doesn't really have much of an effect except helping to prevent corrosion under the vehicle. Replacing the seal isn't that difficult (I did it last year on my '81) once you have the pulley removed.
User avatar
dlb
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 7305
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:03 pm
My tercel:: '87 sr5, '83 dlx parts car
Location: bc, canada

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by dlb »

dhally wrote:Problems
- There is an oil "seep" around the front main seal. Doesn't actually drip but there was a lot of oily dirt in that area. I couldn't clean under the crank pulley for fear of contaminating the timing belt.
- The air filter was really black, looked like it was sucking in oil mist.

Is there another crankcase vent I should clean out in addition to replacing the PCV valve? I'm wondering if the crankcase is getting pressurized, causing the main seal oil seep.

Any ideas?
the front main seal is most likely leaking simply because it is worn out.

the oil in the air filter is most likely due to worn rings/cylinders increasing the pressure in the crankcase. you can try some snake oil fixes like restore or lucas oil (i have had good results with restore) but the definitive fix is to replace the rings.

a compression test will give you a better idea of what's going on though. those are just the most likely things to me.
User avatar
dhally
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:07 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Wagon 4wd
Location: Kennewick, WA

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by dhally »

Thanks for all the comments. Compression is good, above 175 psi on all cylinders. It does seem like the black on the air filter was coming from the fresh air intake, not the PCV tube. The leak isn't bad. I drove it around today and it isn't dripping on the driveway.

Good idea on the dipstick test, I'll take a look.
User avatar
marlinh
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 1584
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:15 am
My tercel:: 'Everett' Blue 87 4WD Wagon (Rocky 86, recently retired)
Location: Kootenays

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by marlinh »

You can get a better idea if there is blow by by removing the oil filler cap and putting your hand over it. Then, rev up the engine. If the rings are bad, you will feel it blowing out on your hand.
User avatar
dhally
Newbie
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:07 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Wagon 4wd
Location: Kennewick, WA

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by dhally »

Thanks everybody for all your help. I finally got this car cleaned up and running OK. As you can tell from the above timeline, working on old cars turns out NOT to be my cup of tea.

So I sold the T4WD. It is amazing what a cult classic these things are, I sold it for $1200 which is about a $300 profit...

Cheers!

Image
User avatar
irowiki
Highest Ranking Member
Posts: 3463
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:02 am
Location: Farmington, NM

Re: Walla Walla pasture find 87 wagon

Post by irowiki »

I thought you were doing just fine!
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)

Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!

87 Corolla FX16, 105k
94 Jamboree RV (Ford E-350), 90k
95 Camry Wagon, 170k
97 4runner, 275k
Post Reply