Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

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ARCHINSTL
Goldie Forever
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My tercel:: Goldie is a 1986 SR5 attualmente con Weber/also owned the first T4WD in STL in late '82
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by ARCHINSTL » Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:17 pm

Goldie's roof leaked in the back also - turned out it was from the OE rack mounting holes (same as yours?). When I removed the rack, I used new bolts and sealed quite well underneath their grommets - end of leaks. The water had actually dripped down the sides and into the tool cubby.
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
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lannvouivre
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My tercel:: 2006 Pontiac Vibe
Location: Odessa, TX

Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:52 pm

Thanks, Tom! I suspect that's the issue the Whitecel is having.

In other news, the lower end of the engine is fully disassembled. I have debris embedded in the bearings and bad scoring on the crankshaft. I will have to get the crank refinished. There were also some large pieces of metal or dirt stuck on the pick-up strainer.

I found nothing inside the engine coming apart, and I think I will likely end up having to replace the oil pump since everything else looks to be in order. Haven't opened the pump as of yet, since I won't be ordering parts until I get the machinist to look at the block and pistons to let me know if I need to overbore anyway. I almost needed to get the cylinders reamed to remove the pistons, and the piston skirts are pretty shiny with wear from piston slap (I assume). Oh well, Ken should be able to tell if I need to replace them.

Overall, not terrible for 400k+ miles, but still not great.

Camshaft looks pretty much fine, I mean, the lobes are even still egg-shaped! That's much better than the ones on the red tercel's cam!

More pictures tomorrow.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by Petros » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:01 pm

get oversized pistons and over bore; if you have piston slap, and ring ridges big enough to cause trouble getting the pistons out, the bores are too far worn. piston slap will cause the piston skirt to fail eventually(learned that the hard way), not worth it, seen it several times. Go straight to overbore w/ new pistons, rings, etc.

sometimes you can hand polish the crank with strips of 800 grit wet and dry paper and solvent. You wrap a fat cord around the paper strip on the journal and pull it back and fourth until the lines are mostly gone. check the size and if within specs you can go with standard barings. costs almost nothing to do yourself and you can do a better job by hand than a machine shop can do with a big costly machine. Of course if the journals are so far gone you have to go oversized bearings, than the crank will have to get re-ground.

Usually the main journals are fine, no matter the abuse on the engine, it is always the connecting rod journals that take a beating. Particulaly number 3 or 4 journals, they are the furthest from the oil pump and run dry first, and always have the lowest oil pressure.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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irowiki
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by irowiki » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:51 pm

I do not really think it was the fault of any previous owners it just so happens that you have 30 years of wear and tear and over 400,000 miles maybe if a few oil changes were missed but still that's a lot of life for an engine
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lannvouivre
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My tercel:: 2006 Pontiac Vibe
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:26 pm

irowiki wrote:I do not really think it was the fault of any previous owners it just so happens that you have 30 years of wear and tear and over 400,000 miles maybe if a few oil changes were missed but still that's a lot of life for an engine
It doesn't look super-bad. I was expecting something ghastly when I saw all the bearing powder in the oil.
Petros wrote:get oversized pistons and over bore; if you have piston slap, and ring ridges big enough to cause trouble getting the pistons out, the bores are too far worn. piston slap will cause the piston skirt to fail eventually(learned that the hard way), not worth it, seen it several times. Go straight to overbore w/ new pistons, rings, etc.

sometimes you can hand polish the crank with strips of 800 grit wet and dry paper and solvent. You wrap a fat cord around the paper strip on the journal and pull it back and fourth until the lines are mostly gone. check the size and if within specs you can go with standard barings. costs almost nothing to do yourself and you can do a better job by hand than a machine shop can do with a big costly machine. Of course if the journals are so far gone you have to go oversized bearings, than the crank will have to get re-ground.

Usually the main journals are fine, no matter the abuse on the engine, it is always the connecting rod journals that take a beating. Particulaly number 3 or 4 journals, they are the furthest from the oil pump and run dry first, and always have the lowest oil pressure.
I think the crank will need a refinish. When I did mine, none of the scores caught on the nail. These scores were like dragging my nail over rough sandpaper. A regrind is like $25 from Ken's shop, and all of the journals need lots of attention. I will probably lightly go over with 800 or 1000 if I can see machine marks.

It's a little tempting to get a knife-edge and rotating assembly balance just so the crank is easier to pick up and reinstall, for I am very lazy and do so hate to life...but that's $150 and doesn't usually do a whole lot performance-wise on such a small crank.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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Petros
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by Petros » Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:48 pm

when I rebuilt my 3ac, and than later did the 4ac for the Tercel, I paid to have balanced my whole crank and flywheel, with the new clutch. I balanced all the piston and connecting rods perfectly end to end on a gram scale, and matched the combustion chamber volume. And I could not tell a difference at all.

In the past when I rebuilt engines and had them balanced, they always felt smoother through the rpm range. I could not tell on the Tercel engine.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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lannvouivre
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:49 pm

Ken picked the Tercel block and crank up. He will tell me what size pistons to order and will then need them before he bores. He will also see if the crank will polish without needing cutting, and he feels the butt of the crank (bolts to flywheel) will need a repair sleeve because it has a groove. Is that TIMKEN KWK99272 ? Says it's a rear shaft redi-sleeve. I haven't done this type of repair before, where a surface needs a sleeve, so I would like reassurance.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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lannvouivre
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:57 pm

New pistons arrived earlier today and the block will be machined soon!
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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lannvouivre
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:39 pm

Ok, so I've been looking over the exhaust manifold...What is that flapper right under the portion of the intake plenum under the carb for? Can it be blocked off safely? The spring that operates it is no longer functional due to rust. I'll also need to block off the other exhaust pipe that gets routed into the air cleaner housing. I may also need to do something about the heat shield, because it's rusted to the point it's...probably almost pointless.

I also need to get CV boot clamp pliers rented and reboot the CV axles.

Also need to replace boot gaiters on the steering rack.

Lastly need to resolve an issue with the exhaust hangers.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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irowiki
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by irowiki » Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:52 am

That flapper directs exhaust to heat up the intake manifold when the car is cold to prevent icing!

You can probably block it into the "closed" position so it doesn't heat it up.
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)

Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!

81 Coachmen RV, 70k miles
95 Camry Wagon, 153k miles
04 Camry Sedan, 250k miles

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lannvouivre
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:02 pm

CV boots are off and most of the grease has been removed so I can go clean and reassemble them tomorrow.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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lannvouivre
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:19 pm

Aaaand the CV axles are ready! Next up is rebuilding the head and rebooting the steering rack.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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lannvouivre
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:31 pm

Image
Glorious tapeup.

Image
Block and head get painted.

Image
Ready for pistons! Is the oil sender where it belongs?

Image
Uhhh? Oops? I don't remember this happening? Does this pipe directly connect to the heater core? Because the inside of it is PACKED with unidentifiable crap. The pipe that comes out of it to the control valve is intact, but I think it somehow snapped off at some point. I think I'll have to loop the pipes that go to and from the heater core from the engine together for now.

Also, when I pulled off the oil pickup tube, there was a gasket. What do I do to replace it?
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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irowiki
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by irowiki » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:43 am

I had gaskets for that in my various kits...I might have one somewhere still.

Is it metal or paper? You might get away reusing the old one with some oil resistant RTV.
Former Tercel Enthusiast (not a practical family car anymore but they still have a place in my heart)

Site administrator, if something is broken, PM me!

81 Coachmen RV, 70k miles
95 Camry Wagon, 153k miles
04 Camry Sedan, 250k miles

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lannvouivre
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My tercel:: 2006 Pontiac Vibe
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Re: Zach's 1985 4WD Tercel Wagon

Post by lannvouivre » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:11 pm

It was paper.
But...did you try hitting it with a hammer?

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