87 SR5 4wd from Vancouver!

[entrax]

Hey guys,

My name is Marc and I've been around Toyotas since I could remember. I've had my fair share of Celicas and MR2s. Since going to LA to Toyotafest, I saw a really neat T4 at the Toyota Museum in Torrance (it's got some ski decals along the side of the car) and I knew I had to get one.

I drove my MR2 (SW20 turbo) for the winter last year and decided that it would be better to have a car more suitable for winter. Going up to Cypress Mountain/Seymour for snowboarding was not an issue at all, but it certainly was not ideal either.

This SR5 had been around on Craigs for a while now, starting in Squamish, B.C. as dlb posted here:
https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10342

I was interested, however I decided that the body damage, high mileage, lack of emissions compliance, and distance to home was not worth the $1200 asking to even bother.

Three days ago I came across the same Tercel again, this time being sold 5 minutes away from me. It seems that it was following me. I decided to have a look. The alternator had been changed, it fired right up, it was disgustingly dirty inside and out, rusty, and beaten up with that big hit to the rear quarter. Some guy was going to give a deposit on the car the same day (this was less than 24 hours after the ad was posted), however I decided to offer to buy it right there and then. Managed to get it for $1000.

As a 23 year old, I know nothing about carbs, or the various mysteries and the ins and outs of Tercels. However, I have had experiences with late 80s Toyotas and even though this car is in my eyes a winter beater, proper care will still be maintained.

In preparation for the winter, asides from general maintenance:
valve cover gasket leak, radiator is heavily corroded, it's running rich.

Here's a few photos:


yes, that is an AW11 in the background, my gf's. and yes, I get to use her stock triangles!!



and here's the summer car that will be complimenting the T4. i'm hoping that I can put in as much care as I can into the T4 as my MR2.

[dlb]

welcome to the forum, entrax. did the last owner say why they were selling it again so soon after buying it?

take a look at this thread, i think bryanthompson posted a link to pics of the same tercel at the toyota museum that you mentioned.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6472

don't sweat carbs, they can look confusing with all the vacuum hoses but once you take a look at the factory service manual and see which device each hose goes to and what it does, you see how bone simple they are.

running rich could be a few things. i would first check the choke to make sure it's opening fully when warm and the AAP to make sure it's not ruptured. both are quick fixes.

[entrax]

The last owner only drove it for about a tank's worth of driving. He brought it down from Squamish, next day alternator crapped out. He got it replaced, drove his band around. Then he decided it was not big enough. So he bought that maroon Previa with 700k+ km that's been around Vancouver Craigs and sold this one.

That is the same car I indeed saw at the museum. I absolutely love the pinstriping with the skier design.

I'll take a look at the FSM on how to check on both of those things. it took me a while to understand the choke, and the automatic choke mechanism while reading it last night, but it makes sense so far haha.

Also, the rust. There's a lot on this car, especially where that big dent is. I managed to pull out a lot of where the bottom of the quarter panel was squished in, but I have to find something to get in there to bend the rest back out. Rust will be treated with por15 and even though it's not fixing the cancer, it will stop it where it is now.

[Petros]

welcome to the forum!

seems a bit high priced for a car that needs so much, but it already has some nice wheels and tires for your needs. Carbs are not so hard to understand, they do the same thing a fuel injection does, but does it with vacuum operated devices. Once you are familiar with it you will find it is easy to check, fix and diagnose its issues. BTW, do not just pull off and cap vac lines thinking that will make it run better, the carb needs those system to run properly, and many not only reduced emissions but also improve drivablity and economy when they are working properly.

Best learn the systems your self and do all of the repairs, maintenance and modifications yourself. It will save you lots of money and you will make sure it is fixed correctly (with the help of this forum of course), most mechanics do not know what to do with a car this old and have even seen a carburetor like this one before. You would be paying the mechanic to learn on your car, a waste of money. Besides, most of the systems are simple and easy to fix, so once you understand it there will be very little you can do yourself.

With some tips and guidance from those on this forum, we can help you turn your Tercel4wd into a great little all-season ski rig and reliable daily driver.

For your current issue, find the vacuum diagram (elswhere on this forum) for your car and trace each of the vac lines to make sure they are plugged into the correct ports (do not assume the last person that worked on it got it correct, I have found that more than half of the Tercels I have seen have mis-routed vac lines), that each of the lines are attached at both ends and not damaged/leaking vac, and than check the AAP (auxilary acceleration pump) is not leaking fuel (you just pull the vac line and look for fuel in it). If the AAP is leaking just cap the line off on both ends for a temp fix, it will only affect the cold running, but will make it run better at all other times, and save fuel economy.

A couple of other things you should check right away: fresh oil and filters, fuel filter, and make sure the trans is at least top up with gear oil, or better yet change it with freash gear oil (make sure you follow the procedure found on this forum and get all 4.1 quarts of new gear oil in the trans), and check the level of gear oil in the rear diff. Also, rent a timing light and set the timing at 10 deg before TDC (vs. the factory 5 deg), and with it you can verify if the vac advance is working properly (again follow the test procedure). If the vac advance is not working cap off the vac lines to it, it will run fine without it but a bad vac adance will act like a vac leak.

good luck!

BTW, that is my favorite model of MR2, it looks great. I have had several of the early ones, but that gen MR2 is very hot and sexy, reminds me of a mini-ferrari. One day I want to own one of those and do a ground up rebuild on it.

[entrax]

thanks for the advice! it was more expensive than what I wanted to spend. i thought i could have gotten it at about 800, but i just wanted to have it!

i had a look at this car's emissions history to get a heads up on what caused it to fail last time:
Inspection
Date & Time 2007-03-31 10:54:51
Odometer 280,000
DrivingHC 208 ppm PASS
DrivingCO 5.37 % FAIL
DrivingNOx 847 ppm PASS
IdleHC 189 ppm PASS
IdleCO 0.02 % PASS

Now unfortunately this is 97000km's and 7 years ago. however, it still coincides with running rich.

Good to know that the vacuum diagram is on here. I had a look the under the hood to find the usual toyota vacuum diagram there, but alas, most of it was rubbed off already from age. I am very hesitant to go to mechanics as I believe that learning how to do things is much more valuable, so I hope my questions don't bug you guys too much!

Speaking of oil, the PS fluid I have in there looks golden like oil, but smells like ATF...anyone have an idea what I might have in there?
For timing, would I have more problems setting it to 10BTDC rather than 5?
Also, when I start the car in the morning, do I need to pump the pedal? Two days ago I just turned the key without stepping on the gas at all and it took about 4 cranks. Yesterday morning I tried it with half pedal down while starting and it fired up right away, stalled, started well the 2nd time. compression sounds good from cranking, but I haven't yet tested for compression

[dlb]

I'll take a look at the FSM on how to check on both of those things. it took me a while to understand the choke, and the automatic choke mechanism while reading it last night, but it makes sense so far haha.

the choke valve is pretty simple. carbs use the suction created by the pistons to suck fuel out of the carb jets and air through the air intake. all the choke does is mostly close the valve in the air's path so that the engine is sucking less air and more gas--ta da, a richer mixture, which is necessary when the engine is cold.

the choke is activated by a bi-metallic spring that has a constant 12v going to it. when it's cold, the spring is wound tighter so as to hold the choke valve closed. as the 12v heats the bi-metallic spring, it unwinds and causes the choke valve to slowly open.

so the main things to look for with a choke are to make sure the valve moves freely and the linkage is not stuck (which can happen if it has sat for a long time), that the bi-metallic spring still has the correct resistance (this is in the FSM but i think it's 11-13 ohms), and that the wire going to the choke has 12v when the key is in the 'on' position.

all that being said, don't forget to check the AAP. they seem to be more prone to failure than chokes.

Also, the rust. There's a lot on this car, especially where that big dent is. I managed to pull out a lot of where the bottom of the quarter panel was squished in, but I have to find something to get in there to bend the rest back out. Rust will be treated with por15 and even though it's not fixing the cancer, it will stop it where it is now.

the plastic trim in the cargo area is easy to remove so it might be best to take it out so you can hammer that rear quarter panel out. it might still be awkward access but take a look and see.

with those huge tires and wheels, if it seems like you're getting crappy mileage remember to account for the difference in tire size. you can use an online tire size calculator to figure out the difference between what your trip meter reads and what you actually drove.

Good to know that the vacuum diagram is on here. I had a look the under the hood to find the usual toyota vacuum diagram there, but alas, most of it was rubbed off already from age.

i posted a pic of the vac diagram from my canadian '84 manual trans a while back. i have worked on all years of manual trans canadian tercs and the emissions have all been the same so this should work for you.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2810#p55103

I am very hesitant to go to mechanics as I believe that learning how to do things is much more valuable, so I hope my questions don't bug you guys too much!

ask away! everyone here is happy to help. some car forums can be full of peanut gallery comments but that's pretty rare here. besides, most mechanics don't want to work, or don't know how to work, on carbs anymore.

Speaking of oil, the PS fluid I have in there looks golden like oil, but smells like ATF...anyone have an idea what I might have in there?

i have used both ATF and power steering fluid. i have had no problems with either. it is probably a good idea to flush and replace the PS fluid since it has likely not been done for many years but i don't think there's a need to do it sooner than later.

For timing, would I have more problems setting it to 10BTDC rather than 5?

to pass emissions, yes. put it to 5* for testing and then adjust it back to 10* afterward, if you like. 10* btdc yields peppier performance (relatively speaking) and will not cause any running issues.

Also, when I start the car in the morning, do I need to pump the pedal? Two days ago I just turned the key without stepping on the gas at all and it took about 4 cranks. Yesterday morning I tried it with half pedal down while starting and it fired up right away, stalled, started well the 2nd time. compression sounds good from cranking, but I haven't yet tested for compression

carb'd engines require you to step on and release the gas pedal before you start it. this both gives the engine some gas to start with and sets the choke valve position. step on and release the pedal once or twice, depending on how cold the engine is but do not hold the pedal down. holding the pedal down does not set the choke, and gives the engine excessive gas which can cause flooding (you would just have to wait 5 minutes before trying to start it again) and is wasteful.

[entrax]

had a quick look at the vacuum lines and linkages today and everything was okay except for one vacuum line that was completely torn. exhaust doesnt smell as rich now but it still has a hint of rich mixture. i didnt get to check the aap as i couldnt pinpoint where it was until after i was done working on the car, however i'm going to guess that might be my issue. basically, from what ive read, if the lines have fuel in them, cap off both ends.

how important is the pipe coming out of the valve cover without the pcv valve? that hose is dry rotted and split, however from what i see, it shouldn't affect the afr?

[dlb]

which vacuum hose was torn?

the AAP is on the front-most corner of the passenger side of the carb. it's port sticks out towards the front of the car.

the hose that attaches the valve cover to the air filter housing is important as it sucks filtered air into the crankcase. if you leave it open to the atmosphere, it can suck sand, dirt, grit, etc which causes the internals of the engine to wear out prematurely.

[Petros]

that line from the valve cover gasket to the air filter is part of the Positive crankcase ventilation system (PCV), the car should run okay without it, no car had a PVC system prior to about 1965, the crank case was just vented to the outside air. If it is blowing a lot of oil out of it that means something very serious is wrong with the rings or the PVC system, but if the engine is operating normal it will not harm it to have those lines split. however you could be drawing unfiltered air into the intake through it, this is a long term concern. so wrap it with duct tape or something until you can replace it, but it will not affect the way it runs, and there is no hurry.

[entrax]

i didn't get to finding out which item does what on the car, but it is the diaphragm that connected to a linkage that runs across the front of the carb..mouth?

i believe it's the diaphragm connecting to M on the TVSV in the vacuum diagram.

i'll get a hose for that hole. all i can feel is air coming out of it pulsing at the same rate as the engine, no oil. surprisingly this car does no burn any oil at 372k, not even at start up. it doesn't leak oil either!

compared to my gf's aw11 4a-ge, that thing's been burning oil at start up (valve stem seals) since 157k.

where do you get replacement aap's?

[dlb]

new AAP's come in carb rebuild kits. the kits arout about $40 here in canada. steep for just a little diaphragm but i would buy the kit, replace the AAP (if necessary), and hang on to the rest of the kit in case you need to rebuild the rest of it at a later time.

did you find fuel in the vac line going to the aap?

[irowiki]

You can find the kits as low as $20 on ebay.

[entrax]

had a look at the vacuum lines and the AAP again and the AAP seems fine. the inside of the vacuum smelled like gas, but it was not full of gas, not even a drop. should i be checking it when it is running or turned off? should it have no smell of gas at all?

here is where the cracked vacuum line was from before:

aap vacuum line?

found this one cracked today, it's the vacuum line that goes to the filter housing for the preheater diaphragm/air temp sensor.

are my jets facing the correct way?

engine bay always reeks of gas, and i saw this:

the three tubes going into that sensor, does it matter which way they go in?

[entrax]

also, can someone confirm where TVSV J go to? is it to the one to the right of the carb mouth? I'm getting it confused with B VTV as the diagrams are close.

right now i have B VTV hooked up to the line that is immediate to the right of the carb mouth, and J TVSV to a little bit under that.

thanks again

[dlb]

checking the AAP hose for gas is only a simplified test. be sure to do the full test from the FSM.

the cracked vac hose went to your choke opener. it keeps the choke slightly open when when the engine is cold and opens the choke up a little more once warmed up.

you are correct, that is the AAP vac line.

that slight crack on the HIC hose doesn't look too bad but it's hard to tell from here. as long as it fits snugly and no air is able to leak in, it is ok.

i can't remember which way the jets face but it's in the vac diagrams that i posted a link to.

looks like you might want to do that carb rebuild. it looks like the pump plunger is worn out and allowing fuel to leak by.

those three hoses you picture aren't going to a sensor, those are the manifold vacuum ports. that's the source of the vacuum that operates a bunch of the various devices. i'm not sure what you mean about which way the hoses go in, hoses only go on one way. just make sure they are attached to the right steel lines, TVSV ports, etc.

the J port on the TVSV should be connected to a steel line that pulls vacuum from the uppermost vac port on the driver side of the carb. again, just check the diagram i posted here.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2810#p55103

referring to that same diagram, the B side of VTV should be connected via a steel line to the rearmost vac port on the driver side of the carb. it's really low down on the carb and a little difficult to access. use needle nose pliers (gently) if need be.

with these old hoses, i find the best way to initially break them free is to put needle nose pliers on the end and twist the hose. you'll hear a little 'pop' as it breaks free. it should pull off the port pretty easily then.

hope that helps!