engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

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Jarf
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by Jarf » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:43 am

This is one of the reasons I always use factory parts whenever possible as it eliminates the question of the defective part scenario.
I do agree with Petros though that 3 bad stats in a row is nigh impossible.

Back when I used to pull wrenches for a living, we would have lots of issues with stats, especially on Japanese cars.
I have always found that A/M stats without the little pee valve were the worst offenders.
Jiggle valve should go at the top (12 o'clock position), that crazy little valve helps to bleed some warm coolant over to the "cold" side of the stat, reducing the possibility of the stat jamming as it starts to open. It also reduces the possibility of air being trapped.

If all else fails, try cracking the heater hose to the heat control valve (pick the highest hose you can access, I usually stay away from cracking the ones right at the core for fear of damage) and try bleeding it there, as Petros said, trapped air isn't usually a problem on these cars but it isn't unheard of, either.

About the only other thing would be to use a new proper gasket without any sillycone, just to eliminate the possibility of ooze-out of the goop.
Have actually seen cars with hardened goop interfering with stat movement, but again that is a super rare occurrence.
Good luck.

gnarnold
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by gnarnold » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:44 pm

yes every piece to the cooling system has been replaced. so I went ahead and i just put the damn thing back in . this time heard a little spring sound when I jiggled it for proper seating maybe it was hung up or caught on what ever it was that made the t stat make the noise . its too late to rev her up right now ,just moved in I don't want to show all my cards right off the bat . wish me luck........that was last night forgot to push send. anyways I just ran it and after a while a whole lotta coolant went some where really fast and the upper rad hose is hot after ten min at idle I topped off rad and ran for about 7-9 min and temp stayed within the thermometer picture and and the fan never went on even asit climbed a little past the icon thermometer and lower hose is cool to touch

t sta im using now: 15 $fail safe
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|

gnarnold
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by gnarnold » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:50 pm

I gotta go to work and im waiting to see if any of those descriptions are reason to grab the wrench and go at it to revewrsae what I have done im losing my sanity
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|

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Petros
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by Petros » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:40 pm

it occured to me that is is easy to miss install the theromostat. the angle allows it fall out and you can pinch it in the housing. I always use some gasket sealant or RTV to hold it in place because it is so easy to have it move out of place while you are tightening the housing bolts.

This might be your problem. glue the t-stat into its groove with form-a-gasket to hold it in place next time you change it.

See this old tread about this topic: http://www.tercel4wd.com/viewtopic.php? ... ys+#p50812
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

gnarnold
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by gnarnold » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:04 pm

success! t stat issue has been resolved !

now the new issue .curb idle speed screw .I was told by someone that to set this screw I would have to screw it all the way in not hard though.and unscrew 2 1/2 turns is this true because I already screwed it in and unscrewed it and it sounds like its gonna shoot off into space . b(the reason I wanted to adjust screw is fuelis leaking from it)
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|

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Petros
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by Petros » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:27 pm

???? fuel can not leak from the idle speed screw. you mean the idle mixture screw? Sounds like someone told you how to adjust the mixture screw, not the idle speed screw. 2.5 turns out is about correct for the mixture screw, as a place to start. once warm and idling you adjust the idle speed, than fine tune the mixture screw in or out until it idles smooth. when adjusted properly fuel should not leak from this screw, if so you might want to put some non-hardening fuel resistant sealant on it. If the soft brass screw is stripped (allowing it to leak) it should be replaced. or was it leaking because it backed out too far? that would also lead to a very rich idle mixture, that would cause the spark plugs to foul at idle.

however, you can not normally get access to the idle mixture screw on the factory carb unless someone has removed the soft metal plug over t, usually this plug is only removed during a carb rebuild. otherwise the mixture screw is set at the factory and not interned to be serviceable.

There are two idle speed screws, the main and the cold idle speed. the main one is on the throttle shaft nearest the throttle body and should only be adjusted after it is fully warmed up. the cold idle scew is the smaller one between the main idle speed screw and the throttle cable bell crank. You have to use a small flat screw driver on adjust it in and out.

before you do that make sure there are no vac leaks and all the hoses are routed correctly. and make sure the adjusting screw on device on the other side of the main throttle shaft is backed off so it does not hold the throttle open at idle. this device is vac operated and prevents the throttle from slamming shut if you let off the throttle quickly. it holds the throttle open a bit for a few seconds and lowers it slowly. if this adjustment is over done it will not allow it to come back to idle. on the other hand if it is backed off too far it could allow the engine to stall when it returns to idle when you let off the throttle like when you come to a stop.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

gnarnold
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by gnarnold » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:18 pm

I have the sealed type I screwed it in to see if that would stop the fuel coming from the screw that has made a nice size wet spot under the bell crank area .not a puddle just a wet mark .so I turned the screw about five or six whole turns to seat it then backed it off 2 1/2b turns idle was through the roof .all in all I backed the screw off about 4 whole turns before it got back near where it was.
it seems to have slowed the leak down but I will check it in a few had to get on real p.c. my phone drives me nuts when I post and nothing shows and I have to repost .fun
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|

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dlb
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by dlb » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:37 pm

if the wet mark you are talking about is under the bell crank, you must be talking about the idle speed screw, and it is probably not the source of the leak. the leak is most likely from the throttle shaft. this is common on all high-miles carbs and there is little that can be done about it with doing cost-prohibitive work on the carb. as long as it only seeps and does not drip, i personally don't worry about it.

if it really bugs you and you continue to have driveability issues, just buy a new weber and be done with it.

gnarnold
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by gnarnold » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:54 pm

sounds good .do you think it could be the source of the tercmell of gas in the cockpit
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|

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Gottolovem
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by Gottolovem » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:01 pm

No the leak dlb describes will be undetectable in the cab of the car.
If you smell gas in the cab of your car FIND THE LEAK BEFORE YOU CONTINUE TO DRIVE IT.
Is your fuel pump leaking look for drips while it's running.
Check all your fuel lines etc.
Raw fuel and hot engine is a very bad recipe.

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Petros
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by Petros » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:21 pm

a fuel stain on the heat shield under the bell crank is almost certainly from the diaphragm that opens the secondary throttle right behind the bell crank on the back side of the carb. these diaphragms are connected through a vacsource that has fuel in it and when old they get leaky. Mine has done this for a long time, and yes it is likely the source of the fuel smell. It drips on the heat shield right over the exhaust manifold so it evaporates the fuel almost instantly.

I have been meaning to replace mine for some time, but the car runs fine and the smell is only a nuisance. though I am wondering if this might be one of the causes of recent poor city economy (when the throttle is pumped open and closed frequently). Seems unlikely however because it is only a tiny amount of fuel that drips out, and than only I think when the diaphragm is activated during hard acceleration.

Fuel can not really leak out the throttle shaft because there is always a vacuum on it, the pressure in the carb barrel is always much lower than the exterior ambient pressure. So even if there was any liquid fuel against the throttle shaft there is no way for it to get out of the carb housing through the throttle shaft bore.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

gnarnold
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by gnarnold » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:38 pm

its a very weird thing that gas smell happens at different times stays and goes like the wind .full tank empty tank fast slow ghost smell maybe im having phantom smells

my relashionship is suffering because of this car.its become an obsession .
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|

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dlb
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by dlb » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:25 am

as gottolovem pointed out, the throttle shaft leak will not cause a noticeable gas odor. like i said, it's seepage as opposed to a drip and takes quite a while to accumulate.

for the odor, i would check the charcoal canister following the steps in the FSM. if it is plugged, which is very common with old ones, it can cause all kinds of problems from reeking of gas to gas leaking out the filler cap.

gnarnold
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by gnarnold » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:13 am

checked and blew compressed air through it doesn't seem to be clogged.

separate question upon replacing the trans -axle /half shaft a year ago i (like the greenhorn i was )didn't replace the seal that goes in between the tranny and the splined end of transaxle .when i replaced the other one i asked the guys at the auto store and was told that they couldn't locate such a seal. i triedon the web and came up with nothing .any clue where to get this seal?im tired of dumping gear oil in the gear box
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|

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Gottolovem
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Re: engine swap 3AC to 3A wont idle just wanna...

Post by Gottolovem » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:21 am

Another member i have been helping out just picked one up at a parts store O'riley i think i will double check for you

EDIT
Yes O'Riley has the seals so does Autozone ask for output shaft seal or transmission seal part# 223240
I have confirmed this is the right seal personalty.

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