Need to replace my clutch...TURTCEL

[TURTCEL]

Well, seems like this topic has been quite popular on the website lately. I need to replace my clutch on my '85 SR5 now. It started slipping a little yesterday shifting into 4th gear.

I actually did the "PETROS" method for checking for a bad clutch and the motor only bogged down and did not stall. I have been having a little clutch chatter upon acceleration at take off and now slippage while driving and shifting. Trans makes no noise and has no smell to it when the clutch slips. Just mostly low power on take off and up hills.

I ordered an EXEDY clutch from RockAuto today because it seems to be one of the most recommended clutch kits by members. Should be here in 3 to 5 days...so next week I will be doing my clutch.

I also want to replace the rear main seal on the engine while I am in there as well as any trans seals that should be done at this time. i figured I could just take the trans down to the local tranny shop and have them order and install the seals that I would need. Can't imagine they would charge too much to replace the seals.

Is there anything else that I should look into fixing at this time too? The cv axles are fine and the driveline seems good too. Should I put a new clutch cable in? The old one looks fine to me.

Petros mentions running a 50/50 mix of full sythentic gear oil and conventional gear oil. Any recommendations on brands and weight?

I will be doing this job in my barn on 4 corner jackstands and help from a friend, so should have a pretty good set up for myself.

Peace

[dlb]

4wdchico and splatterdog both run full synthetic and are big supporters of the stuff, although petros says he had shifting problems with full synthetic. 4wdchico mentions that any synth gear oil going into these transmissions should have 'NS' in their name to indicate "no friction modifiers for limited slip differentials." read his post on the topic here.

https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... 885#p43503

i've gone back and forth on the dino/synth gear oil topic. when i did the gear oil in my corolla, i decided on dino because i was worried about the detergents in the synth oils breaking down old oil deposits that may be the only things that keep an old trans from leaking. however, one member on the forum reported an increase of 4% increase in fuel economy by switching to synthetics, and that's what keeps me coming back to it. so i still might try it one day, and if i do, i will be sure to try an NS synthetic like 4wdchico recommended.

[Petros]

both list member Synth and I had the problems running pure synthetic gear oil, might have to do with the age of the trans as well.

I would replace the rear output shaft seal on the trans, and the two front diff side/cv axle seals. Make sure get the correct ones with the dust slinger rib on them for the CV axles seals, some companies will sell a seal that fits without this rib. Without it dust and dirt will grind the seal away fairly fast. In fact, if you can not get the correct seals I would leave the old ones in if they are not leaking. Some have also replaced the small seal on the 2wd/4wd selector lever shaft. I would replace them myself, they are all easy to replace, no reason to pay someone else. If you are in a bind than just do the rear output shaft seal, the others are fairly easy to get to with the trans in the car. Do the rear main engine seal for sure.

[TURTCEL]

both list member Synth and I had the problems running pure synthetic gear oil, might have to do with the age of the trans as well.

I would replace the rear output shaft seal on the trans, and the two front diff side/cv axle seals. Make sure get the correct ones with the dust slinger rib on them for the CV axles seals, some companies will sell a seal that fits without this rib. Without it dust and dirt will grind the seal away fairly fast. In fact, if you can not get the correct seals I would leave the old ones in if they are not leaking. Some have also replaced the small seal on the 2wd/4wd selector lever shaft. I would replace them myself, they are all easy to replace, no reason to pay someone else. If you are in a bind than just do the rear output shaft seal, the others are fairly easy to get to with the trans in the car. Do the rear main engine seal for sure.

Thanks for the advice on the job that lies ahead. Should I consider doing the front trans seal too? If the seals are easy I will absolutely do them myself. I was going to order seals from Toyota if they were available. What brand of seals do you recommend? Especially the ones for the cv axles that need the special dust slinger? I don't want to buy the wrong thing.

My trans was fully rebuilt 30k miles ago (I have all paperwork) so does that play in to my decision making for trans oil that I use?

Any tips on doing the rear main seal to assure that it doesn't leak after I get the trans back in?

Peace

[Petros]

I have never seen a front input shaft seal on the trans go bad. I would order factory seals for the CV axle shafts.

the rear is simple install, you just have to remove the dust cover and any brand will likely do fine. I tape them in lightly with a plastic mallot, you can also use the correct size socket, or even better make a tool from a short length of PVC pipe of the correct dia. The correct dia is just under the outside dia, so it bears on the metal ring, not on the lip part of the seal. I like to put some none hardening sealant on the outside (it helps hold in place) and put some clean grease on the lip of the seal before you install the shafts so it will have some lube when you first run it there will be some lube in there.

[ARCHINSTL]

Go to the OE and AM Parts Numbers Forum - I have posts there and pix of the proper CV/trans seals, as well as OE part numbers for the rear trans seal.
It's important to get the proper CV seals as Petros mentions - some parts houses (many) do NOT have the correct ones, despite their info..
Tom M.

[TURTCEL]

Is there anything I should do when replacing the rear main seal on the engine? That is my main concern, the trans seals can be done with the trans in but the rear main is a whole different ball of wax.

I have also seen posts in regaurds to lightening the flywheel. My friend works at a machine shop that resurfaces flywheels but he said he wasn't sure that they had the means to rebalance the flywheel if they removed weight. He said that as long as they removed weight evenly then he said it should stay balanced. Is this correct? How would they go about lightening it, where do they remove the weight from? Are there any posts or pics on the website that I just haven't been able to find?

I also adjusted my throttle cable today and that helped with the power loss on hills. Am I delutional or is my clutch still possibly going out? The only time it slipped was right after Petros test method. No real chatter when starting out or shifting now. What's up?

Peace

Peace

[Petros]

A lot of weight can be removed the 3a flywheel, it weighs 19 lbs! The corolla flywheel, with a larger engine, only weighs 16 lbs. It should be rebalanced, any good automotive machine shop should be able to remove the weight and balance it for you. the machine that resurfaces the clutch face is not suitable for removing the weight, it takes a bit off, but it is not designed for reshaping a flywheel. It is about a $200 job typically. It does not give you more hp, but it improves throttle response and speeds acceleration by reducing the inertia. this will bring the weight to about 14 lbs, still on the heavy side for a performance engine but much more suitable for street driving.

There is no benefit to high flywheel weight other than for new drivers that have poor clutch release skills, the weight means there will be less chance of stalling the engine. They made it heavy on the Tercel since Toyota assumed a lot of buyers would be first time, low experience drivers. That is an undesirable feature for any experienced driver, slows the engine and add a lot unnecessary weight.

Here is a cross section I worked up for the one I lightened:

[TURTCEL]

Prob just leave the flywheel alone except for a resurfacing. Should I replace the flyheel bolts when I reinstall it. Do I need to use an imact wrench to tighten the bolts or should a breaker bar work to get the tight enough? Should I use light weight lock tight?

With my previous symptoms does it sound like my clutch is having issues? Prob needs replacing?

Peace

[Petros]

if it is slipping a lot than it likely needs refacing, it will have a lot of metal transfer and perhaps surface cracks, and blue metal spots.

You can reuse the flywheel bolts, but you must have a torque wrench to install them (DO NOT use an impact wrench!), these are very important high strength bolts that need to be tightened properly. clean the bolt holes out with solvent and a small bore brush, and clean the bolts with spray solvent too, and all the mating surfaces must also be very clean. Install clean and dry and torque in alternating sequence until the torque spec is reached. DO NOT over tighten. Make sure you use the correct metric sockets on them to both remove and install them or you risk damaging the flats on the bolts. If you can not break them free you can apply some heat to the bolts and try again. I should come free with careful wrenching with a large breaker bar handle. You will want to remove a spark plug and put some heavy cord into the spark plug hole to stop the engine from turning, no other easy way to do that (make sure that cylinder is at TDC so both valves are fully closed). Remember to remove the cord and replace the spark plug when done. Same for clutch cover bolts.

If you did the clutch test, and it engine stayed running, than you need a clutch, no question about it.

[TURTCEL]

If you did the clutch test, and it engine stayed running, than you need a clutch, no question about it.

Thanks Petros, I really appreciate the time you have taken to help me out on all of my questions on this topic, as well as all the other topics too.

I did the clutch test and TURTCEL failed. She will be getting her new clutch next week. I will head to the Yota dealer tomorrow and order all my seals for the job. RockAuto shipped my clutch today so I am hoping to see it early next week.

I am actually looking forward to doing this job...as crazy as that sounds. I like learning about my vehicles so I never have to take them to a shop unless absolutley necessary.

My friend's '85 SR5's clutch is in worse shape than mine so after I do mine I will be helping my friend with theirs next. The '87 Terc 4wd that I just bought needs a clutch too so it seems to be a project I will be getting to know very well.

****Petros**** Since the flywheel off the 3AC would need to be used when doing a 4AC swap would you be able to get a flywheel lightened for me if I sent you one and paid for the lightening as well as shipping (obviously). Just a thought if I ever run into doing the swap. I might have a spare flywheel is why I am asking. Seems like a job that you know how to get done but if someone who didn't really know what they were doing could ruin a good flywheel. I will actually be moving to Everett in May, well my wife and kid for a ahort while to my folks house while I work in Cali. It would be convenient even to have my Dad bring it to you and drop it off if the job was possible. i don't mind paying for good custom work if it makes a difference.

Peace

[rer233]

one thing you might want to do while the trans is out is lube the the bellhousing bushings that the clutch fork pivots on (don't recall anyone making mention of it here.) put a clutch in my '84 about 16 years ago and didn't think to lube them. got to do the job 2 years later when the pivots froze and the clutch slipped badly. all the spray lube in the world wouldn't free it up- had to pull the trans again. sux.

also (even 'tho alot of the guys here say it's not necessary) i ALWAYS remove the trans input shaft before dropping the trans. it comes out after removing a small cover secured by 5 (i think) bolts. that way, you can pretty much lower the tranaxle ass'y straight down. also, the input shaft makes a real good tool for aligning the clutch disc while tightening the pressure plate.

Good luck!

[TURTCEL]

So, after removing the cover what needs to be done in order to remove the input shaft? I would be using a floor jack and help from a friend so I would figure just sliding it back would work fine.

Would I need to install the input shaft before reinstalling the trans or would it be a reverse process where the input shaft and trans would be reconnected after trans is installed?

What are the benefits of removing the input shaft first other than a straight down drop? Is there a less chance of damaging parts by doing it this way? I am in no hurry to get it in and out in one day so if it takes two that is fine, I can take a few extra steps to avoid damage if it helps in that department.

Peace

[rer233]

tough to get enough room to slide transaxle back far enough for the input shaft to clear the clutch ass'y- bellhousing hits the firewall. and yes, i re-install the input gear after the trans is bolted up to the engine.

Good luck!

[TURTCEL]

That is a really good tip. What if I was to lift the trans up in the back while still connected to engine and put a slightly larger chuck of wood between firewall and the head to make just a little extra room between the bell housing and the firewall for clearance? Would that help in not pulling the input shaft first, or would it just put a weird angle on everything causing more of a PITA for me?

My clutch will be here Monday but I can't install it till Tues or Wed because I am ordering all my trans seals from Toyota so that should take a day or two to get those. I will get everything ready to go before the parts get her but the Terc is my only car right now. Smurfette will be in Cali for a week so once TURTCEL is down then she needs to be fixed soon since she is my only ride. I live on a farm outside of town so the walk would be a little long...haha.

Peace