want to get the most out of my Tercel

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SuperDave769
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My tercel:: 1986 tercel 4WD. new hella driving lights, good mud and snow pizza cutters, driven by a Jedi!

want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by SuperDave769 »

I'm really interested in some advice about engine upgrades for my 1986 4WD Wagon, such as intake and exhaust upgrades or carb. i'm not really sure even whats possible, especially . I have done some googling already and there are just too many parts sites to choose from. thanks alot
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Petros »

Welcome to the list.

There are not a lot of "hot rod" parts for the Tercel engine, and frankly it is not very durable for tweaking anyway. The head design is obsolete and with only 8 valves does breath very well, plus it does not cool evenly and you risk blowing head gaskets as I found out, even after extensive mods.

There are lots of old threads on this topic, search the archives. In summary it works like this: if you want to stay with the 3a engine there are only a few mods worth doing (in addition to a good rebuild), a weber carb, a performance reground cam shaft (Delta Cams in Tacoma WA), lighten the flywheel, and perhaps a 2" exhaust system.

There are several engines you can swap in, some are more work than others. the easiest swap is the 4ac, almost identical engine except more displacement, same mods apply to this engine as the 3ac. Than you can go 4af or afe (fuel injected), or the 4age (also fuel injected). All of these swaps have been done, the more powerful engine (and the most aftermarket performance parts available) is from the 4AGE. These engines will all require a custom header and exhaust system, custom flywheel, switching over to fuel injection, some custom fab and making it all work. I have been slowly assembling the parts I need to convert my Tercel to 4age, and even doing the work myself and buy most of what I need from wrecking yards, it is not inexpensive.

Good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Kapteinmoby
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Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:59 am
My tercel:: 87 (85 look) Tercel 4wd wagon, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 85 Tercel wagon 4WD Amfibious (Tvillingen) previous: 86 Tercel wagon 4WD
Location: Norway, Sør-Trøndelag

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Kapteinmoby »

hey Petros, i have a friend with a webbercarb witch was fitted to an opel manta 2l and i wounderd if it would work in a terc? it would have the capasaty on the fuel(obviusly) but if you have any experience with different webbercarbs? also cant you just fit a bigger/better radiator and maby better waterpump to manage the cooling? my experience with the 3a-c engine is that its hard to kill... very hard.
Current: 87 Tercel 4wd wagon, 98 Toyota avensis 1,6 4a-fe, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD amfibious (tvillingen)

Former: 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 86 Tercel wagon 4WD 87 Opel Corsa A 1.3, 84-88 Toyota Carina II 1.8, 93 Opel Vectra A 2.0 and 68 Mercedes-Benz E 200.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Petros »

The weber carb can be made to work, but likely you will need a to re-jet it to make it run best. You would also have to make your own adapter (not too hard), or you can remove the studs off the manifold and re-drill and tap to fit the weber without the adapter (best to find a extra manifold so you can swap back if necessary).

The stock radiator cools exceptionally well, even in very hot summer Texas desert with single row radiator. Water pump and the larger double row radiator are all the cooling this car will ever need. But almost any radiator can be made to work if you can not find a replacement. The corolla radiator is very similar but larger.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Kapteinmoby
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Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:59 am
My tercel:: 87 (85 look) Tercel 4wd wagon, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 85 Tercel wagon 4WD Amfibious (Tvillingen) previous: 86 Tercel wagon 4WD
Location: Norway, Sør-Trøndelag

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Kapteinmoby »

re-jet, that is to change the jets for some who is fit for the engine? or can i adjuste them? and the vacumlines, can that be a problem? ofcourse i have a spare manifold, i'm what we call here in norway a scrap gnome :P and two ekstra radiators from other cars, in my exsperiense you can fit almost any radiator if you got a lot of cable ties and ducktape :D
Current: 87 Tercel 4wd wagon, 98 Toyota avensis 1,6 4a-fe, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD amfibious (tvillingen)

Former: 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 86 Tercel wagon 4WD 87 Opel Corsa A 1.3, 84-88 Toyota Carina II 1.8, 93 Opel Vectra A 2.0 and 68 Mercedes-Benz E 200.
vwguy
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My tercel:: 1986 dlx 4wd... bone stock.

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by vwguy »

Has anyone tried doing any headwork on these cars? I see a lot of talk about cams, carbs, and exhausts. But not much is mentioned about the head.

I mean, if you can swap a cam, and adjust your carb. You should be capable enough to pull the head.

A 3angle valve grind, de shrouding, bowl blend, and gasket match will cost easily twice as much as a cam. But the benefits will be fealt through out the entire rev range, especially in the bottom end. You will also get better economy.

If you wanna be real chinsy about it and you have the time. Do some research on porting 2valve per cyl. heads. Go to the scrap yard and get a used head. Build yourself a valve spring compressor, Grab a dremel, and start cleaning. You will still need a machinist to do an angle grind (about $10 per valve). Maybe get a .6-.8mm shaved off the head for a little compression bump.

Bottom line with making efficient power, you need to start at your bottle neck. In this case, its your valves.
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Petros »

Yes, I have done all of those things to my 3a head (I am running 11.24:1 compression ratio, port matched and polished). I had worked for a fully sponsored factory backed racing team, so I know all about it (been there, done that, with a pretty good budget to experiment with too). I have concluded on the 3a head it is all a wast of time and money. The head design is obsolete, too flimsy, and too costly to try and make it get more power. That 8-valve head is just too restrictive to work with, even if you want to spend the big bucks to put in over sized valved, the increase will be limited. And I found out the hard way this head is just not suitable for trying to tweak more power out of it, it does not cool evenly and will give you nothing but problems. I have blown out 5 or 6 head gaskets even giving it the special "race" treatment on installation. Go read the introduction on my head gasket installation over in the repair guilds for more details. The head is adequate for stock use, but there is no growth built into this head design (personally I thing Toyota blew it with the design of this head, it was obsolete when they designed it).

It is far less costly, you get more power, and much more reliability to just do an engine swap with either the 4af or 4age. With the 4age you will get twice the hp without any other mods. Better reliability and fuel economy too. that is the direction I am going, hope to get it done by next summer.

So clean up the ports, install the performance cam, and perhaps the weber, and just live it. Or do the engine swap and be done with it.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
Lil Beast
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My tercel:: 81 tercel sr5 GTS (4age RWD and 4WD application on build up for the moment) now im running a 3a with weber 32 dmsa 100,corolla gts front suspension, sway bar and steering, troush exhaust
Location: Oliver B.C. Canada

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Lil Beast »

I would go as petros mentionned the 4age, i'm actually building one. It can be done fairly cheap dont know what's your budget like but if you look at mine it's not too shabby. So it's doable, i'll say that it can be done for around 1500$ if you are quite handy in a shop, do most of it yourself and get good deal on engine, harness and ecu. I did'nt got so lucky on the engine paid 850$ (rare in canada), i do most of it but by getting all that and i volunteer for rally racing decided to mod everything to go rallying so my bill got way over the above mentionned. 4age to come back to it is a good application it as been proven a lot on race track and still is.And for performance part side there is plenty at somewhat affordable price for all taste and set-up. If you like turbos i would go 3sgte as it's already a turbo engine from manufacture so affordable to start with and it's been done you can find threads. I run the weber for the moment, it's good but not that great for what it's worth, just waiting to get all the bits and pieces together on my 4age. But if you just want that little bit missing for your old tired engine and have a bad stock carb that it's kind of iffy to rebuild and readjust float for some reason anyway mine did, the weber will do but not recommended on automatic you will kill it trust me i'm killing mine.
Dont let your eyes to fool you!!!

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Kapteinmoby
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Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:59 am
My tercel:: 87 (85 look) Tercel 4wd wagon, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 85 Tercel wagon 4WD Amfibious (Tvillingen) previous: 86 Tercel wagon 4WD
Location: Norway, Sør-Trøndelag

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Kapteinmoby »

i'm sorry to ask this, but i'm sick of serching for this. what is the optimal jetsize for a weber in a stock 3a-c engine in a 1985 tercel at sealevel?? i've used about 20 hours serching for this, but havent found any conclusion.... my current jetting is: DYSER
primary:
air: 155
fuel: 145
idle: 45
secondary:
air: 110
fuel: 115
idle: 50
Current: 87 Tercel 4wd wagon, 98 Toyota avensis 1,6 4a-fe, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD amfibious (tvillingen)

Former: 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 86 Tercel wagon 4WD 87 Opel Corsa A 1.3, 84-88 Toyota Carina II 1.8, 93 Opel Vectra A 2.0 and 68 Mercedes-Benz E 200.
Highlander
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Location: Nederland, CO

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Highlander »

Kapteinmoby- try this URL- it has the jettings for sea level that they supply on new 32/36s.
http://www.racetep.com/webercarbjet.html
vwguy- I did all of this when I rebuilt my '83It's got much better low end torque as well as more consistent response and it pulls straight out to 5+k Rs, but my mileage went down to 25 mpg from 32 (It couldn't be the way that I drive it now , COULD IT? NAH!). No CR increase (probably a little drop), smoothed the short side radius, ground the short side of the runners on the eshausts, opened up the intake runners, cleaned up the comb chambers, 3 angle seat cut, back cut on the valve heads, radiused the intake valve edges, flowed, balanced, and ground the intake manifold at the interface for a weber per Petros. Just haven't gotten the weber on it yet.-its now got 10k on it so its not break-in resistance anymore.
'83 SR5-299K, -tRusty!
'85 SR5-265K--GOLD
'85 SR5-285K-- GOLD-New engine!
'85 SR5-238K -- Teal-Killed by a DD
'58 and '62 Austin-Healey Sprites
Kapteinmoby
Advanced Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:59 am
My tercel:: 87 (85 look) Tercel 4wd wagon, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 85 Tercel wagon 4WD Amfibious (Tvillingen) previous: 86 Tercel wagon 4WD
Location: Norway, Sør-Trøndelag

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Kapteinmoby »

thanks, now i just need to find a dealer in norway...
this is the setting for 32/36 dgv 5a(i dont know if mine is 5a)
main: 140/135
air: 165/160
idle: 55/50
pump: 50
Current: 87 Tercel 4wd wagon, 98 Toyota avensis 1,6 4a-fe, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD amfibious (tvillingen)

Former: 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 86 Tercel wagon 4WD 87 Opel Corsa A 1.3, 84-88 Toyota Carina II 1.8, 93 Opel Vectra A 2.0 and 68 Mercedes-Benz E 200.
Kapteinmoby
Advanced Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:59 am
My tercel:: 87 (85 look) Tercel 4wd wagon, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 85 Tercel wagon 4WD Amfibious (Tvillingen) previous: 86 Tercel wagon 4WD
Location: Norway, Sør-Trøndelag

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Kapteinmoby »

now the weber is running great, but i got som airleaks from my homemade manifold adapterplate, so i wonder if i should buy one. anyone know if this fitts? http://www.allcarbs.com/detail.php?gb=1 ... stt=&mfgn=
Current: 87 Tercel 4wd wagon, 98 Toyota avensis 1,6 4a-fe, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD amfibious (tvillingen)

Former: 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 86 Tercel wagon 4WD 87 Opel Corsa A 1.3, 84-88 Toyota Carina II 1.8, 93 Opel Vectra A 2.0 and 68 Mercedes-Benz E 200.
teranfirbt
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My tercel:: '86 SR5 4WD, 5AFE, lifted rear, 195/70/14 tires
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by teranfirbt »

Redline makes a real adapter, but it's a little spendy.
danzo
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Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:01 am
My tercel:: '86 SR5 6 speed
Location: The Colony, TX

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by danzo »

Not sure adapter you were talking about, but I couldn't find one that fits from that company. Here's the adapter I am using: http://www.piercemanifolds.com/ProductD ... =99004.250 Fits great but you have to shorten two intake manny bolts (I dremelled mine). At $44 plus shipping there's no need to make your own.

Here's my jettings at 500' above sea level:

Primary:
main 145
air 160
idle 55

Secondary:
main 160
air 170
idle 50

My driveability is good but I'm probably running a bit rich since I haven't put in smaller jets since it became really hot outside (almost 100*F everyday). I do get some pinging above 3000rpm when I open the secondary throttle plate, but this is most likely due to an ignition timing problem. I'm getting about 29mpg combined right now so I'll put in smaller jets in the next few days to lean it out a bit for the weather.
It's a scientific fact that in a twin engine aircraft, when one engine fails there is always enough power in the remaining engine to make it all the way to the crash site.
Kapteinmoby
Advanced Member
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:59 am
My tercel:: 87 (85 look) Tercel 4wd wagon, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 85 Tercel wagon 4WD Amfibious (Tvillingen) previous: 86 Tercel wagon 4WD
Location: Norway, Sør-Trøndelag

Re: want to get the most out of my Tercel

Post by Kapteinmoby »

i think they look just the same, hope it fits. that was one of two stores that i could find selling the adapter.
Current: 87 Tercel 4wd wagon, 98 Toyota avensis 1,6 4a-fe, 85 Tercel wagon 4WD amfibious (tvillingen)

Former: 85 Tercel wagon 4WD (Blå), 86 Tercel wagon 4WD 87 Opel Corsa A 1.3, 84-88 Toyota Carina II 1.8, 93 Opel Vectra A 2.0 and 68 Mercedes-Benz E 200.
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