to sway bar or not

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takza
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by takza »

Jarf wrote:As an update on the bar issue, I jammed a washer on the left side and all is quiet though I will have to retry with a thinner washer as the one I found at the time was rather thick. While the noise is gone the car is almost impossible to drive as the RF wheel breaks loose and wheel hops uncontrollably, I think perhaps I have a wee bit too much tension on the L side, just sitting in the drive and doing the bounce test, the RS has the traditional bounce and a 1/2 the LS hardly moves at all, like the suspension is solid. Pounds hard over bumps too. Whoops.
Might be a good idea to try to get the bushing tension even on both sides to maintain even dampening force.
Must say I was surprised at the amount of effect it had on the suspension, I never expected that a little washer could have so much effect.
Prior to this little mod, I was reveling at how hard it was to crack the tires loose. Middle ground will be sought as the replacement bar is 2 weeks away.
You should be very careful when adding spacers or washers...if it binds that much you are putting a lot of tension on the end of the bar....metal fatigue could cause it to break eventually.

Sounds like you really need to order some new rubber parts and so forth for the ends of the bar????

If you try adding spacers or shims or DIY...you REALLY need to watch what you are doing?
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

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dlb
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by dlb »

jarf, any conclusion to this sway bar saga?
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by Jarf »

I took out the huge washer and found a large O-ring, that took out most of the slop at rest.
One thing I did notice while mucking about with it was that the toothed sleeve had left impressions on the rearward retainer (as it is supposed to do)
but the imprint was off-center which really makes me think the issue is between the bar and the sleeve.
There also was a noticeable wear on one of the cushions.

New bar and cushions are on order.
It had been my intention to replace all of it again and know all was fine, once I received the quote I cut the order back to just the bar, cushions and sleeves plus the 2 retaining washers that were re-used from before.

Parts will be a couple of weeks but hopefully that will be the end of bad noises.
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dlb
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by dlb »

man, that's bogus. i had a mystery clunk in the right front corner and after looking at some of the sway bar threads here and talking to barto about it i thought i'd take a look. sure enough, all that was left of the metal sleeve was a few turds and dust, and the end of the bar where the sleeve sits was fairly corroded. nowhere near as bad as some of the pics i've seen on here but enough that i'm glad i took a look when i did. anyway, i called around just to confirm that no one but toyota has the end links and that was the case so i called up the local toyota dealer... $178! for 4 pieces of rubber, two metal tubes and a few washers? what a f*cking joke. i have a friend who has a toyota land cruiser shop and he deals directly with some japanese parts places sometimes and he said he might be able to get it for a fraction of the cost for me but no dice, his dealer never responded. so i called toyota back yesterday and the stuff is in now. i hope i don't run into the same problems you have, it sounds like a nightmare.
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by ARCHINSTL »

davidlucasbarnes wrote:i called around just to confirm that no one but toyota has the end links and that was the case so i called up the local toyota dealer... $178! for 4 pieces of rubber, two metal tubes and a few washers?
Did you check out my posts vis a vis these parts (with OE #s) from Butler Toy in Indy? A lot cheaper, even with extra postage to Canada.
Concerning the clunks - while you're at it, be sure to check the two bolts per strut/knuckle interface - for some reason the right side fasteners seem to loosen over time - mine and several other member's have and resulted in clunks as well.
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dlb
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by dlb »

hey tom. yeah, i checked out your links but the butler website didn't work, one of the sites was strictly for part #s, and the other one only had the bar-to-body bushings. the guy at toyota gave me 20% off cause even he acknowledged what an outrageous price it was so it came to $130. still steep, but a very cool gesture on his part.

i'll take a look at those bolts you mentioned right now, as i'm going out to put everything back together now. thanks for the heads up.
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by dlb »

i've searched the forum for a "how to" thread on reinstalling the sway bar but haven't found anything. the problem i've encountered is that after getting the ends of the bar through the lower control arm, the bar to body mounts don't line up with the bolt holes. i played around with it a little bit and torqued the sway bar end nuts up to specifications and used the jack to raise the bar up to roughly where it should go but it's still about a 1/2" too far forward of the holes. if i had more time i would have experimented more but i had to come to work and now i'm dwelling on it. is there a trick to this?
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by ARCHINSTL »

keith's 8th post down - photo using cargo strap - pretty neat - and see my subsequent post a couple further on. It really works!
http://www.tercel4wd.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3281
Also misc info:
http://www.tercel4wd.com/viewtopic.php? ... way#p30195
http://www.tercel4wd.com/viewtopic.php? ... way#p24528
Tom M.
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by Jarf »

Replacing the bar is a PITA with all new bushings.
There are a few things that will make it go easier, not the least of which is cold beer.

I assembled the control arm side of things first but left the nuts loose. As you raise the bar (with a jack) it will come ahead as it goes up.
On the split side (of the bar-frame bushing) there is a raised portion that fits into the detent in the frame and I found that every time I almost got it home that bushing would hang up on the frame, by rotating the bushing forward a bit, I found that when I cranked the bar into place the bushing would pop into the detent.
A little dish soap as lubricant will help immensely.
Don't tighten anything until you have all the nuts and bolts started and make sure that all the bushings are properly located before tightening as well.
If you still have trouble getting the bar forward, grab a rope, tie off to the front towing eye, back around the control arm (outboard of the sway bar mounting) and back to the tow eye. Grab a hammer and insert it between the ropes and start twisting, you will be able to crank the arm ahead enough to get everything lined up.
Once it is all assembled, tighten the U-bolts at the bar-frame mounts first, then tighten and torque the end nuts, watch as you tighten them that everything stays lined up. Take a look at the FSM and you will see the order of parts: spacer, retainer, cushion, aft cushion, retainer, spacer, nut.
(If you leave anything out it will affect the alignment).

Take your time and it will all go smoothly.


Use liberal amounts of never seize between the bar and the collar, a little on the threads wont hurt either.
The collar to bar should be fairly snug, not sloppy. If you can rock the sleeve on the bar then it is probably time for a new bar.
I had a little tiny bit of slop on the LS but didn't think it was not enough to cause an issue, as a result I get to replace all those cushions again, Yay!
Penny wise and pound foolish. Don't get caught too.
I was told there was another one of these "old stock" bars kicking around, let me know if you need the dealer info, I think it was in Mo. but will look it up just in case.
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dlb
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by dlb »

alright, i will loosen off the end nuts, though i now worry that i should get new ones since they are supposed to be single use or disposable or whatever--but screw it, i'll use tom's idea and put the old nuts on behind the new ones just to be sure. i'll also try the rope and hammer trick, did you come up with that yourself, jarf? very inventive!

don't worry, i'm pretty meticulous. i checked the FSM to make sure everything was in the right order, threw never seize between the bar and collar to help prevent corrosion, and made sure the collar was still snug on the bar end. thanks for offering about the old stock bar though, i appreciate it. i'm pretty excited to see how this affect the feel of the car but i'm choked that i won't have time to work on it until next wednesday. thinking about quitting my job and just wrenching in my mudpit all the time.

penny wise and pound foolish--i've never heard the second half of that, does it mean a person is thrifty to the point where their thriftiness screws them? like, say, not buying new locking nuts?
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by ARCHINSTL »

I'd like to say A-Yup to your last paragraph, but...
It usually means someone who can be very careful or mean with small amounts of money, yet wasteful and extravagant with large sums. An automobile example would be turning off the engine and coasting down the mountain to save money for a competition sound system for a Yugo.
However, many people use your definition and I think it's entirely appropriate.
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dlb
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by dlb »

ahhhhh, i get it. pound, as in the monetary sense! i thought of imperial weight, like a pound of flesh--smart with money, dumb with real life concerns or "fleshly" things. i also don't get a lot of jokes, i don't know why i'm retarded this way. my fiancee hates it.

thanks tom!
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by Jarf »

Yes, it is a monetary thing, british in origin, I believe.
Archinstl pretty much nailed it.
My only point being that in trying to save the cost of a new bar, I managed to trash $100 worth of hardware, so instead of just replacing the bar when I had the chance, I tried to cheap out and it cost me double. (save a penny, waste a pound ($)).

While I would like to take credit for the rope and hammer trick, I cannot.
Mostly an old farmers trick, but I have seen it used many times by many different people, and as far as I know, none of them knew my Uncle Fred.

As to your nuts, they are new but have been installed once, theoretically they should be replaced. You however have a few options, double nutting is one, locktite is another, I personally am fond of a well placed peen.
Your choice as to how to do it, I have seen 2 methods:
1) sharp pin punch directly in the middle of one of the flats of the nut
2) 3 pin punches at equa-distance around the top shoulder of the nut.
Mostly you are looking to deform the nut slightly causing it to bind and therefore not back-off. I usually go for the well placed single punch on the flat.
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dlb
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by dlb »

you guys have all been a big help on this sway bar issue but there's one crucial detail you all forgot to mention:

DON'T PUT THE SWAY BAR IN UPSIDE DOWN.

i'm sure everyone on this board must be wondering how i survived this long without getting eaten or something. i swear to god, i'm not this pitiful with most things though. i guess when i was cleaning the ends up of the sway bar before i re-installed it i flipped it over a few times. it wasn't obvious that it was upside down when i first put it in because it fit fine and with a certain degree of force i was able to bolt it all in. the cushions at the ends were bulging awkardly though, and it just didn't look right. i took it apart and put it back together in different orders several times before my dear old dad popped by and was brilliant enough to figure it out. i took it apart again, flipped it over, and i actually had no problem putting it back together. ta da!

at least that was amusing enough to cancel out my rage and frustration. what is not amusing is that the mystery clunk is still in the right front side. it's so disappointing when you fix something but find no noticeable improvement afterward. at least i have peace of mind that my sway bar won't snap now at least. i'm going to move on to the inner tie rods now. which i've read a few people mention can make clunks when going over bumps. how do you check them? i just tried using the forum search but isn't working for me right now, i don't know what's up with it. i'll try again tomorrow.

thanks for the help!
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Re: to sway bar or not

Post by ARCHINSTL »

Did you note my posts about the two strut-to-knuckle bolts? This has happened to several members' cars, including my own. A Wagon mystery. Maybe - the left side gets loose on the OZ cars? :wink:
Tom M.
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