to sway bar or not

[Jarf]

So February saw then end of the fr end rebuild to the beloved turtle.
It now has new BJ, outer tie rods, inner control arm bushes, shocks, strut mounts, bearings and all the sway bar bushes and mounts.
It was glorious. Felt like brand new.
5K on it since then and in the last week I have noticed a most annoying little clunk in the left front.
Checked it out quickly this aft I can definitely feel the click in the left side sway bar mount to lower control arm.
The nut is tight.
The was mild corrosion under the sleeve when it came apart but nothing that seemed terminal.
All the hardware was replaced save the 2 retaining washers, I reused the 2 of the better ones and put them on the aft end just in case.
It has definitely gotten worse in the last couple of days, from "what was that?" to "that really doesn't sound good"

I am not sure if I am dealing with just fatigued washers or my worst fear, the ends of the sway bar are fatigued and starting to stretch.
Thinking about having a bar snap at highway speeds gives me chills. Having a wheel slam into the foot-well at 100Kph would not be good.

Part of me wants to stuff another washer in there will give it a bit more tension on the bushing to shut it up.
Then again, a bit more tension may just create a colossal failure if the bar is indeed compromised.

What do you guys think?

[4wdchico]

Do it. There have been cases here where the end of the sway bar failed due to rust. Not pretty when it happens.

[ARCHINSTL]

Definitely do it! As 4wdchico mentions, the results can be catastrophic. Do a Search for info on this. The control arm can flop around if the bar breaks. Apart from the transmission, this is an Achilles Heel, both figuratively and literally, for our cars - I think Toy used similar designs on other cars of the era. Maybe Toy was not alone - dunno.
Tom M.
> > > OK- I DID IT FOR YOU - THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT < < <
A couple of very pertinent links:
https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... bar#p24320 << IMPORTANT ! < <
https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... bar#p10807
https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... bar#p20478 < photos !
https://tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php? ... bar#p18762

[Highlander]

Jarf- Just a question, did you replace the nut, and when you reinstalled it, did you torque it to the recommended 90 ft-lbs? If it was old and worn, the self-locking feature of the nut might not be functioning allowing it to loosen up due to the vibrations of normal driving. Just a thought, not saying you shouldn't be worried about the swaybar breaking. I would be.

[Jarf]

The only thing that wasn't replaced, with new from the dealer, were the aft end washers. Nuts were new, everything slathered in anti-seize and it all bolted up nice. Nuts were indeed torqued and are still tight.
There was a but if loss in the bar thickness where the sleeves ride but nothing like the pic above.
That to me looks like 50% loss of metal, were as mine are more like 5% and I really didn't think it was enough to cause an issue but perhaps I need to take it back out for further inspection, it should be obvious at this point.

I guess I was hoping that a bit of wear in the hole of the CA would alter the clamping force of the bushes which are predetermined by the length of the tube spacer and could cause the same noise, adding an extra washer under the aft retainer might help a bit but I am probably reaching for straws here.

So, anyone out there have a decent used bar?
Will give my parts guy a call today but am guessing new will be prohibitive to say the least.

[hberdan]

When the front sway bar failed in traffic on my 87, I thought I was probably going to die. I mean that, I'm not joking. Total loss of control. Lucky for me there was not an accident and no further damage to the car! I did, however, scream a bit.
I replaced the broken bar the next day, which was indeed cracked at the driver side control arm, with a used one in good shape from my parts car, and brand new bushings and washers. Be sure and follow the bolt torque requirements.
It's definitely an Achilles heel in these cars as they age.
EDIT:
Note to hberdan: I'm sure you noticed it, but - I took the liberty of editing your original thread on the loss of control with the sway bar failure to add bold red print - hope you don't mind. I thought your warning was really important.
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... bar#p24320
Tom M.

[Jarf]

The warning was hoisted aboard. I have actually had a similar experience many years ago on an old Datsun, not worth repeating.
Car is off the road for now, awaiting a new replacement bar.
Used would have been nice but I have been unable to locate anything around these parts, seems if it is more than 10 years old, it goes into the crusher.
I think the new ones must be some sort of platinum alloy as they are ONLY $400.
At least they are still available.
Sigh.

[ARCHINSTL]

Jarf - I realize you are in Ontario, but - Butler Toy in Indy shows the bar for USD109. Anyway you could get a Detroit-area friend to order for you? Dunno if it ships to Canada,
www.toyotaoemparts.com . Drill through until you find it.
Tom M.

[Jarf]

Tom- I missed cut-off on friday, so wasn't going to order it until monday morning.
I will now be making a few extra calls.
No stateside friends unfortunately, but $300 buys one heck of a lot of shipping and duty charges.
Thanks for the heads up.

[takza]

I don't think a bar with 5% gone from the ends where the control arm is is a problem....I think you'd be wasting $ there. If you have noise...it's more likely the rubber parts that are too loose....or a nut that has loosened?

I made a recent post showing the cross section of the swaybar ends....add an extra rubber washer...but make sure it is small enough in diameter so that it doesn't interfere with the range of motion of the swaybar vs the control arm...no greater diameter than the original rubber?

The sleeve is supposed to have a sloppy fit vs the swaybar...the rubber controls the action?

I found a used swaybar a couple of years ago for less than $100 in the US...no rust and with decent rubber parts...and have had no noise. I did add some extra rubber washers when I put it together though.

[Jarf]

So, pulled things apart today to see what was going on, would appear that the spacer is rattling on the bar, did the Takza fix for now but will order a bar to be done with it, just don't like the idea of it letting go, I don't think it will but no need to push things farther than necessary.

As an update on the bar itself. My local dealer can get 1 in 2 days, list price $401.35. I mentioned the OEM parts guys price and after talking to the boss they came back with a 1-time DEAL of $320 + taxes.
The listing at OEM that Tom supplied, while priced, is not available.
Though they did turn me onto one sitting on the shelf down in Tennessee
Survey says $135 brand spanking new. Freight will add another $50.
Looks like I will be waiting 2 weeks for the new piece to show up.
I cannot believe how much we are getting reamed on everything.
I am so pissed right now I can hardly speak.
Back in the day when our dollar was worth 60c we had no choice but now with the dollar being at or near par (for over 2 years I might add) there is just no excuse for such a discrepancy on price.
Not limited to auto parts either, magazines still list a US$ and a CDN$ and it is always 20-30% more for us.
I am so tired of getting screwed in this manner.

So here's a question for you guys in the US , how much is fuel down there now, and more importantly, what is the spread between reg and Premium?
Up here we are running about 95c/L for reg and prem usually about 12-15c more/L
Oh, and the price will often change a couple times a day, every day by a few cents, sometimes 5 or 6c.
(1 US gal = 3.78L)
I am guessing (I could be wrong) that you guys are not forking an extra 50c/gal for the good stuff, are you?
Just want to know how badly we are getting jammed.
they keep telling us how lucky we are, with the rise in the dollar we are supposedly paying much less than we should be for fuel but I am guessing that is just more propaganda.
We have been paying around $1/L now for about 4+ years.

[takza]

Save this link and you can know gas prices any time you want?

http://www.gasbuddy.com/

They have midgrade and premium also. Plus diesel.

[Petros]

around here the best price for regular is just under $3/US gal, and about 25 cents more for premium fuel (92 octane). Some of the big brand names are as much as 20 cents a gallon more, I buy the cheap ARCO gas (now part of BP) at about $2.84/gal, and premium is about $3.17/gal.

[ARCHINSTL]

The Regular price in St. Louis has dropped to $2.69 over the last week - I think that's about 71 US cents per liter, which should be pretty close to CA cents. Midgrade is USD2.85 and Premium is USD2.99.
One thing to consider (while not excusing BigOil) is that different areas have vastly different formulations, which can add to the cost. We in STL have emissions regs that outstate MO does not have. An example is Springfield, a large city in SWST Mo, where Regular is going for a dime less per gallon.
Another thing is that MO has one of the lowest gas taxes in the USA - which also explains our CRAPPY highways. For example, just across the Mississippi in IL, the tax adds about 30 US cents per gallon - and you can sure tell in the roads - ditto on the other side of MO, in KS.

Over the last couple of years I've wondered about some CA parts prices I've seen on this site - since I'm aware that our dollars are now pretty close in parity. A shame you can't just hop across the border and order the parts.

It surprises me that Butler at http://www.oemparts.com could not get the part for you; it's always gotten parts for me from other Toy warehouses. Unless - the bar is not at a ToyCo warehouse and is at another Toy dealer who did not want to send it to Butler and wanted to make the markup for itself...understandable, I guess.
Anyway - glad I supplied the link for you. As I've mentioned many times before, the parts guys at Butler take the extra step in helping people. Dunno if Indy people are like that in general or if it is the philosophy of that particular dealership - they are certainly much more helpful than any of the nine St. Louis Metro area Toy dealers ! ! !
Tom M.

[Jarf]

While I can appreciate the different formulations complicating the price structure. We have also been told that shipping affects the price as well, though I don't buy that argument. Last time driving across the country, fuel was more expensive in Sask than it was in Ontario, and sometimes the far north would be cheaper than the south. I think it has more to do with local sales volumes and competition than anything else.
The reported prices merely support the idea that those of us north of the border are getting jammed hard.

As an update on the bar issue, I jammed a washer on the left side and all is quiet though I will have to retry with a thinner washer as the one I found at the time was rather thick. While the noise is gone the car is almost impossible to drive as the RF wheel breaks loose and wheel hops uncontrollably, I think perhaps I have a wee bit too much tension on the L side, just sitting in the drive and doing the bounce test, the RS has the traditional bounce and a 1/2 the LS hardly moves at all, like the suspension is solid. Pounds hard over bumps too. Whoops.
Might be a good idea to try to get the bushing tension even on both sides to maintain even dampening force.
Must say I was surprised at the amount of effect it had on the suspension, I never expected that a little washer could have so much effect.
Prior to this little mod, I was reveling at how hard it was to crack the tires loose. Middle ground will be sought as the replacement bar is 2 weeks away.

The bar in stock in Tenn is actually the previous issue (P# has been superceded) so I suspect that had something to do with an inter-dealer exchange, not that it matters much to me, wether I pull a part out of Indy or Tenn matters not to me, either way it has to be shipped.

Tom, I know what you mean about dealer service levels, I have tried 4 different dealers in and around the GTA/Barrie areas and have found one that actually has parts guys that know how to look up parts, get the right ones and maybe even ensure that the customer gets what he needs rather than what he asks for. Too often I have had them bring out an oil filter, when I ask where the drain plug seal is, it's like, "oh, you want THAT too".
I was impressed that the Tenn dealer made a point of asking if I wanted all the bushings, washers and nuts, seems like they do a much better job of training their counter guys down there. When I was in the biz, I wanted to make sure that the cust had what he needed.
When someone asked for a dist cap, I would also bring up a rotor, some would say, "I didn't ask for that" but most would say, thanks, I would have forgotten that.
I think the current buzz word is up-sell rather than customer service but I still prefer to be serviced rather than just have my money taken.
When I was in Ford-land the parts guys seemed to get a real kick out of NOT telling a customer about a part he would absolutely need to perform a repair, when I queried them on it, their answer was always the same - He'll figure it out and come back, or better yet, bring it in for us to do it and we can charge him even more!
Funny thing is, when that happens to me, I make a point of NOT going back, I will drive for an hour rather than put up with that kind of crap.