Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

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Petros
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by Petros »

It appears the water outlet on your new engine is at the back of the engine as set-up for a transverse engine installation. you can make this work with long radiator hose extensions,etc. But I would swap over the water pump housing (rear half where the water pump mounts), the heater tube and the rear heater hose mount (on the back of the head) to your new engine so the water circulates the same way as on the 3ac engine, and it will be easier to adapt it tot he Tercel cooling system. Everything from the 3a engine should bolt up to the SCV engine with little or no trouble.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
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IHblarp
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My tercel:: '83 SR5, JDM 3A-SCV motor swap
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by IHblarp »

highlander, After a little more investigation i figured out that one of the vac lines was actually connected to another vac can near the back of the intake manifold. My 3AC motor has the can but the cap is lacking the vac port for the SCV. It has a black cap that sits just left of the carb if your looking at it from the front of the car. Also I did throw my vac pump on the actuator and I think you assumption of it being spring loaded return is correct. I didn't get a chance to look into the intake ports while i did it but without vac they seemed to be in a "wide open" position basically not restricing flow at all. When i get a moment I will try to get some more pics to clarify what i'm talking about.

petros, you would be correct in saying that this came out of a transversly mounted car. The thermostat is located at the back of the motor as well as the tsvs doodad. As it sits I have basically stripped the SCV motor down to just the block and head. I am planning to put the 3AC water pump on the SCV but it doesn't seem to line up quite right. The steel tube that connects the pump body to the water outlet(or inlet whichever is right above) on the head seems to be just a bit too long, so the bolts don't want to line up. I'll try to get pics. I'm also wondering if you guys would know where i can get the rubber seal that goes between the block and the water pump itself. It's behind the timing chain cover. I checked at both auto zone and checker and they wanted to sell me a water pump mounting kit, which contained one paper gasket (for the steel tube that heads back along the block) and two o-rings. The o-rings looked to big in diameter and not as fat as that seal. If anyone knows what this seal is called, that would help me out a bunch!!
Highlander
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by Highlander »

That would be the suction housing seal. I had to order it from my local Dealer-~$2. about the tube being too long, try using the water pump housing, bypass tube and heater hose from the 3A. My wife's is set up just the same as all of the rest I own in this regard. I hooked the SCV servo into the TVSV where it splits off to the Fuel filter. I'll let you know if the fuel economy changes. It runs perfectly well with it connected that way.
'83 SR5-299K, -tRusty!
'85 SR5-265K--GOLD
'85 SR5-285K-- GOLD-New engine!
'85 SR5-238K -- Teal-Killed by a DD
'58 and '62 Austin-Healey Sprites
IHblarp
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by IHblarp »

thanks for the bit on the suction housing seal! i finally got a chance to take some more pics so i can show you guys what's happening with the water pump.

basically with the pump from the 3ac in place, the mounting bolts for the head outlet do not quite line up.
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so at this point i feel like I have a few options.
First and best figure out why they are not lining up, and fix it.
I'm wondering if the steel hose has been pushed up in the water pump housing and could be pushed back down. when looking into the opening for the thermostat I can see a gap (~1/8"-1/16") between the bottom of the steel tube and the housing itself. so I think that could be making that difference up top. My thinking is that i could possibly heat the housing with a propane torch and see if i can push them back together. does anyone know if that tube is a press fit or does it have o-rings or seals of some sort?

option two, cut about an 1/2" out of the steel tube and use rubber hose and hose clamps to join them back together at the correct length. this would be an easy fix and provided there is enough clearance between the rubber hose and the exhaust manifold it seems like a viable solution.

option three, enlarge bolt holes on the housing enough that i can get the bolts in. I dont want to do this because it seems like its just asking for problems, so i guess its not really an option more of a last case scenario if nothing else works
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by teranfirbt »

The steel tube has O-ring seals on each end, and they go out rather frequently from what I've been told... You'll want to replace them before it goes back together if you haven't...
As far as the holes go, you should be able to push the upper housing onto the tube and the tube into the lower housing far enough to make up the difference.
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Petros
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by Petros »

It looks like too much tube is showing, it is not pushed in all the way (which is why the bolt holes do not line up).

You may want to remove the fitting and take a pair of channel-locs or vise-grips to the tube and work it back and fourth until you wiggle it out. Clean it up and with new o-rings and some grease (or silicone sealant as a lube) it should slip all the way in. I presume this is the tube from your 3ac engine, not the one from the SCV?

You can get corrosion from the dissimilar metals that might keep it from slipping in all the way, once you get it out make sure you wire brush or scotch-bright both ends of the tube and each of the fittings.

good luck
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
IHblarp
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My tercel:: '83 SR5, JDM 3A-SCV motor swap
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by IHblarp »

thanks for the input guys, it helped a bunch.

now for a bit of an update.

after working on this thing all weekend I finally got it all put back together. my buddy nick came over about noon on sat and by about 3:30 am sun we had the motor back in the car. then another couple hours on sunday the car actually fired!!! unfortunately it took direct application of gas to the carb, but started up and ran none-the-less!!! :D :D I'm still having fuel issues, the pump doesnt seem capable of pulling fuel through the lines to the filter. I hooked up a vaccum pump and it took about 15-23 psi to bring any fuel through the supply linefor the fuel filter?? that seems mighty high for a mechanical pump so i'm thinking I'v got a clog either in the tank or in the lines from the tank to the filter. I'll probably try to drop the tank this week and see what i can do. Is there some sort of strainer in the tank line most FI cars have? I cant see that there wouldn't be some sort of screen or strainer to keep big stuff out of the lines but i'm not sure.

I also ran into another problem sat night that has me quite worried. when i got the motor out a couple weeks ago i turned all my attention to swapping parts and never really cleaned up the bell housing. So when i got around to it I noticed a very large series of cracks in the housing itself. I decided to go ahead and put the motor back in, with the intention of getting all the other small bugs worked out while i look for a bell housing. I cant imagine that i cracked it getting the motor out, It did take some work to get it out but i dont think i did anything that could have cracked it. Also all the cracks seemed to have enough grease and grime from the clutch that i don't think their new. So I'm wondering if it would be ok to drive it for a little while, at least long enough to get other issues resolved that will require it being a running car, or should i wait until i can find another bell housing?

also, the fly wheel didn't have a pilot bearing in it when i took it out, I ended up buying a full clutch kit so i went ahead and pressed a new one in, could the lack of a pilot bushing have caused the cracks.

I'll post some pics of it later tonight.
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by teranfirbt »

Have you replaced the fuel filter? There's also a plastic screen in the tank itself that might be plugged.
IHblarp
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by IHblarp »

yea, replaced the fuel filter, the old filter was completely clogged. I pulled a little gas through the inlet line up to the filter but it required a large amount of pressure which is leading me to believe that the screen in the tank must be clogged. I pulled out the sending unit last night and good lord that tank is in bad shape!! the sending unit had rust all over it, I couldn't get any resistance on any of the plug terminals and the inside of the tank looked pretty scummed up. are there any detergents that will clean gas tanks or would I be better off to just replace it. I found a tank on ebay that would cost about 130 shipped but i'm not 100% positive it's the same tank. Does anyone know if there's a manufacture that makes plastic tanks or even just a good source for tanks for these beasts?
Highlander
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by Highlander »

You might try blowing back into the tank from the fuel filter inlet (with the gas cap off) to try to clear the line out. I have an '83 fuel tank that's in good shape (been out of service, empty and dry for ~12 mos) if you need it, I don't know where you are though. You shouldn't need THAT much vacuum to draw fuel though :cry: . Cleaning fuel tanks is a task usually best left to the local radiator shop-they boil them out. I cleaned and converted the tank for my '58 myself, but that was a totally different issue (a little rust, some scale and that's all). The junk and residue is a problem, and there is usually water in the very bottom eating the steel away if it sits for long with old gas in it.
'83 SR5-299K, -tRusty!
'85 SR5-265K--GOLD
'85 SR5-285K-- GOLD-New engine!
'85 SR5-238K -- Teal-Killed by a DD
'58 and '62 Austin-Healey Sprites
IHblarp
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by IHblarp »

thanks for the offer highlander, I'm in Southern New Mexico. I don't know if it be worth it to ship it down from colorado, and I know i'm not headed up there anytime soon. but i will definitely be checking around at some of the radiator shops, to see what they charge. I was thinking there is some sort of coating you can put in gas tanks, seems like my dad and i did that for an old dirt bike i used to have but i don't really remember.

it also looks like i'm gonna be in the market for a bell housing/diff in the near future so maybe I'll try to locate a terc in a junk yard around here to get some parts off of. Seems like all the junk yards around here are very ghetto covers for illegal trade so that always makes junk yard surffin pretty interesting. :lol:
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by Highlander »

Beware of the coatings- I've used two different ones at two different times, and had the same problem both times- the coating peels up and can plug up the fuel line :x . I recently used POR-15 Marine Clean in my Sprite tank, and it laid down a phosphate layer that looks like it'll resist the tendency to rust. I'll let you know in the spring after a winter's rest with a full tank. I've also got a tranny for the '83 if you can't find anything near you. :)
'83 SR5-299K, -tRusty!
'85 SR5-265K--GOLD
'85 SR5-285K-- GOLD-New engine!
'85 SR5-238K -- Teal-Killed by a DD
'58 and '62 Austin-Healey Sprites
IHblarp
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by IHblarp »

just figured i'd post some pics of the bell housing cracks

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I also dropped the gas tank yesterday. it in pretty bad condition, but I think I'm just gonna rinse it out and clear out the pickup lines and strainer and hope for the best.
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Petros
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by Petros »

without a pilot bearing the input shaft could be off center and with the clutch engage, it would put cyclic stress on the trans housing. This could crack the housing, as we can see. Does it look like the cracks initiated around the input shaft? The housings are normally pretty tough, I have never seen one damaged like that in any car. If it does not leak gear oil you can likely drive it like that, but I would not wait long to replace it.

You need to replace the bell housing, it is integral with the trans housing, possibly with one from a junk tranny. I have a trashed tranny in my garage that likely has a good housing (gears are worn out). I was keeping it for spare parts, I do not expect to ever rebuild it again, but neither was I planning on pulling it apart. If you can not find a replacement trans I will consider pulling apart the tranny and sending you the part of the housing that has the bell housing on it (it would be less costly than sending you a whole trans!). It is a major job to pull your trans all apart and replace the housing, I suggest finding a whole new tranny if you can and just replace it whole, and keep your old one for spare parts. If not, we can consider my spare trans housing as your back-up plan.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
IHblarp
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Re: Newb looking for a bit of info on 3A scv

Post by IHblarp »

thanks for the reply petros and thanks for the offer on the bell housing, Highlander said he has a whole trans for an 83 so that might be the best option. he's also close enough that I could probably drive up there in a long weekend.

After putting the gas tank back in and deciding that both fuel pumps i had were toast, i ran and bought a new pump, and sure enough it pumps gas, the problem is it floods the engine bad enough that i can see a puddle in the bottom of the primary barrel!! after dealing with the junk in the tank i figured that the carb would be pretty gummed up also. so i guess a carb rebuild is in order!! hopefully that will begin this week, I'm not exactly thrilled about having to tear into that beast(it looks pretty complex!!) Does anyone know of a good diagram of these carbs with all the necessary adjustments???
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