Engine runs cold

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:17 pm

Oops, I forgot to log in before that last reply. But that was me that posted as the guest. Now my car is nice and warm to ride in.

russkiypenguin1 · Post by **russkiypenguin1** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:35 pm

Ok, I've got a few replies/issues in here:

a: dug320 (what to do with antifreeze)

You must be in a much more environmentally sound state that my state. Here we all pour our antifreeze down the drain. YUP, EVEN THE SHOPS. I realize Missouri is a bit hickish, so I won't bother making apologies. We do make sure that it does sit in open pools for children or animals to drink...since it's sweet tasting, but it all goes to the county water treatment facility.

b: takza (plastic flushing kit pieces)

I'm on my 6th Prestone flushing kit and none of my parts have failed. I personally wouldn't replace the plastic t with a metal t unless it broke. And the assertion that it breaking could lead to engine damage is pretty misleading. If you blow a coolant piece you'll spew steam everywhere and hear a really loud hissing sound and your temp gauge will skyrocket...it's really hard to not notice.

c: general advice on thermostats.

If you replace a thermostat replace it with a "fail-safe" thermostat. It's like a buck more and it's engineered to fail in an open state if it breaks. So you'll never ruin an engine from not noticing that your thermostat is hosed.

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:36 am

In reply to Russkiy:

It just seemed like common sense to recycle the antifreeze back into the engine since it seemed good. If I had decided to replace the antifreeze the local garbage transfer station has a recycling barrel for antifreeze

I forgot to mention that there was already a back-flush hook-up in the heater hose line when I bought the car. I've had the car for almost a year and 16,000 miles now and had no problems. I'll leave the hook up on and do the back flush another day. It seems like pretty stout plastic.

I don't know if the thermostat from NAPA is a "fail-safe" type. I just took what they gave me. I'll keep my eye on the temperature gauge.

Now that the car is operating at normal temperature , I notice a little pinging under load like going up a hill. Could running colder than normal mask the timing being to far advanced? I suppose I'll check that tommorow.

takza · Post by **takza** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:08 am

Logbear wrote: It just seemed like common sense to recycle the antifreeze back into the engine since it seemed good. If I had decided to replace the antifreeze the local garbage transfer station has a recycling barrel for antifreeze

I forgot to mention that there was already a back-flush hook-up in the heater hose line when I bought the car. I've had the car for almost a year and 16,000 miles now and had no problems. I'll leave the hook up on and do the back flush another day. It seems like pretty stout plastic.

* the antifreeze might look good, but the anti rust/corrosion additives might be depleted?

* have heard of one other case where a flushing tee broke...in my case it started as a crack and I caught it when running the car in the driveway. On the road...by the time you happen to notice the temp gauge running high or see steam while driving...it might be too late...and involve a head gasket R&R.

>>> we makes our bets and we takes our chances.........

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:33 am

Fail-Safe is a brand I believe. I'll keep that in mind and get one of those from Autozone. I think they are $10 versus $8.25 or whatever the other is from Autozone. Where can you grab one of these back-flush tees? Metal or plastic? How difficult would it be to rig up an alarm to the temp guage. Have it go off above acceptable limits. Something obnoxious, but overridable and nothing that'll make you crap yerself after a long silence.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:41 pm

Guest wrote: Fail-Safe is a brand I believe. I'll keep that in mind and get one of those from Autozone. I think they are $10 versus $8.25 or whatever the other is from Autozone. Where can you grab one of these back-flush tees? Metal or plastic? How difficult would it be to rig up an alarm to the temp guage. Have it go off above acceptable limits. Something obnoxious, but overridable and nothing that'll make you crap yerself after a long silence.

lol.. Forgot to log in at school

Teddy1 · Post by **Teddy1** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:48 pm

Hahaha.

I'm with russkiypenguin... I don't know what tarkza is talking about. I have NEVER had one of those plastic tees from a backflush kit "crack".

I have installed about 160 (ish) of them... on most of my customer's cars in the last 7 years.

Neither the Napa or the Prestone ones have ever cracked on me. Ergo, its a non issue.

Coolant DOES "go bad", by the way... time/age/wear will allow blowby gasses from the combustion process to contaminate the coolant, the constant heat cycling of the coolant against steel, aluminum, iron, rubber and plastic causes chemical/electrolysis and leeching of material into the coolant, and the natural (expected) "boil out" or distilling of the desired chemicals in the coolant, into the atmosphere, will slowly facilitate collant "going bad". Not to mention plain old rust.

In a PERFECT WORLD, the coolant system would be PERFECTLY SEALED, and we would never have any problems, and my pony would slide down a rainbow into a little pond of chocolate and pour my coffee every morning, while dancing girls toasted an english muffin for me...

Neither the world nor our cooling systems are perfect, and at 200,000 miles "somewhat sealed, some of the time" would be a fair way to describe most cooling systems.

Safe-T-Stat and Fail Safe are indeed the "lock OPEN" thermostats, and they are certainly worth the extra buck and a half.

The Napa and Toyota thermostats are much better than the generic discount parts stores thermostats. This is VISIBLY obvious. If you aren't going to purchase (or can't find) the lock open variants, then splurge and buy the Napa or Toyota stampings.

Yes, now that your engine is running HOTTER (specifically, the head/combustion chambers) you may notice ping or even knock, going up hills...

Cause: fuel/air mixture is preigniting under load.

Possible solutions:

1. Check plugs. The plugs almost never lie. Are they worn/melted or is the white insulator flaking/cracking/dusting? Buy new plugs, one heat range colder. I like the 99 cent plain steel/copper core Autolite plugs. If you get the Autolites, the one colder than stock number is 63. Gap them a "smidge" wide.

2. If you haven't advanced your timing MANUALLY, then, it hasn't changed. If you HAVE advanced your timing, and you installed cooler plugs gapped a bit wide, and you still have ping, bust out the timing light, and read The Book, to reset timing. Note that over time, the compression ration on our 3A-C motors might INCREASE... due to carbon buildup in the combustion chambers, and on top of the piston (while at the same time, leaking rings/valves/head gasket will eventually LOWER the compression ratio). Higher compression on one or more cylinders may be the culprit.

3. Check condition of cap/rotor. If you see glazing/dust trails/carbon lines in the cap, then you might have some crossfire/shorting/inductive ignition going on, which can DEFINITELY cause ping and knock. Also, I hate to say it... most of the spark plug wires out there SUCK. The optimum replacement wires are NON carbon core, NON resistor wire, spiral wound with PURE silicone insulation. When wires start breaking down, pinging and knocking will increase dramatically, as sympathetic igntion occurs in the wrong cyclinder, due to sparks jumping wires running in parallel. Spark plug wires are some of the few things that should NOT be purchased at Napa or Toyota... go to a hotrodding shop, and buy the Moroso, Accel or Mallory spiral wound, low resistance, straight through, silicone insulated "racing wire".

4. This one seems silly, but, it COULD be relevant: change fuel filter

A partially clogged fuel filter will restrict fuel delivery UP TO a pound, and under full throttle conditions, partial fuel starving at the carb could be causing a lean condition, inducing or encouraging ping.

5. Start putting a higher test (higher octane rating) fuel in your car.

- Teddy

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:24 pm

Pretty much what I'd say to do for some of those things Teddy said is.. Go to Napa and buy a can of Sea-Foam. The stuff isn't expensive and is well worth it. It'll clear out any carbon deposits in there, break down varnishes.. It's one of those almost-too-good-to-be-true things. If that doesn't do it, then try out some of the other things.
Where would you say Stant Superstat thermostats place? I have one of the Toyota Truck ones in my hand and it looks pretty beefy.
I guess what I should've asked was WHAT do I get for the flushing tee if I just want to use a garden hose, where do I install it, and how do I use it?

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:46 pm

Lol... I just got a feeling that I needed to check it and guess what? I already have one! 5/8" apparently. So I guess now I just need to know.. How do I use it? And how do I get an adapter for my hose? It currently is a male connector (the tee is)

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:52 pm

Since I got the engine running warmer I did a couple of things Teddy mentioned. I replaced the plugs (I used NGK). The old ones just looked old and crusty. When I went to set the timing I found the bottom vacuum hose already off and plugged. I set the timing at 5deg BTDC, put the vacuum hose back on and had less power than before, and no pinging. Kind of felt like a slight miss at 60 MPH. It didn't really want to accelerate up the little hills. When I got off work today I advanced the timing a bit and drove home with slightly more power but now I have pinging going up hills. I'm tempted to pull and plug the vacuum hose like it was before. It ran so good with it off. I haven't checked the distributor cap and rotor yet. Maybe tommorow.

I did a compression check when I had the plugs out:

#1 190
#2 150
#3 150
#4 190

What's up with that? Is it time for the seafoam treatment? Maybe I'll get some on the way home from work tomorrow.
I might try the fuel filter too.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:13 pm

Hmmm... Might have a leaky head gasket between the cylinders? Typicaly when there are two next to each other that are lower than the others its a head gasket problem, at least as far as I'm informed. You should still do the Seafoam and see what develops.

takza · Post by **takza** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:29 am

Teddy wrote: Hahaha.

I'm with russkiypenguin... I don't know what tarkza is talking about. I have NEVER had one of those plastic tees from a backflush kit "crack".

I have installed about 160 (ish) of them... on most of my customer's cars in the last 7 years.

Neither the Napa or the Prestone ones have ever cracked on me. Ergo, its a non issue.

Statistically speaking...you are at GREAT RISK....BEWARE......

<_<

Logbear · Post by **Logbear** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:45 pm

After Seafoam treatment and a cloud of smoke... 180 PSI on all 4 cylinders. I changed the oil shortly after the seafoam treatment. It just seemed like the right time to do it. I still feel kind of a miss at high speed. I read in another post about cleaning the EGR valve. Maybe I'll try that and a fuel filter next.

While I was under there I confirmed my suspicion about the clunk-clunk-clunk I heard when taking a hard right hand curve today. The left CV boot is blown. Time to steal an axle from one of the parts cars. Now I have something to do tomorrow.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:52 pm

Boot reminds me. I found that my passenger side steering-rack boot just split in two yesterday (I know it was yesterday, as the day before it was intact)
How severe of an issue is this?

Some other maintainance things to try are the Seafoam Power Steering cleaner, running maybe an Amsoil varnish and deposit remover in the oil, running thru a whole tank of Seafoam (1 can should do a full tank of gas)
You should probably just do the fuel filter before it has a chance to get clogged (I should probably take care of that) and cleaning the EGR can't hurt.

According to the Toyota Motor Sales Co., Ltd. A Series Engine Repair Manual of Aug., 1979 (covers 1A-C, 2A, 3A & 3A-C engines) the cylinder pressures should be at 178 psi (STD) to 128 psi (Limit) with a difference between each cylinder of no more than 14 psi.

How do I back-flush my system?