4AGE swap into 85 4WD

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Lil Beast
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My tercel:: 81 tercel sr5 GTS (4age RWD and 4WD application on build up for the moment) now im running a 3a with weber 32 dmsa 100,corolla gts front suspension, sway bar and steering, troush exhaust
Location: Oliver B.C. Canada

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Lil Beast » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:59 pm

Forgot to ask how much would you want for the cross member spacers. They just bolt between the body and xmember right? Not sure if I'll need them yet but probably.
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SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:45 pm

Lil Beast wrote:Forgot to ask how much would you want for the cross member spacers. They just bolt between the body and xmember right? Not sure if I'll need them yet but probably.
Good question. Gotta due the math and get back to you. So far I only had 6 made. 4 for the swap and 2 for Dave and his 4AC swap. I'm not sure how much square stock I have left either.


And yeah, I swapped to a standard FWD intake manifold. It takes a bit of massaging components but works easily. Someone offered to buy my RWD shaved manifold for good $$$. It also makes it easier for others to follow when they do it instead of having to source a RWD unit out.
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by larry mcgrath » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:38 pm

Synth I'm sure by now your up to your but in aligators with the rewire job,a quick question how are you going to pick up a speed sensor signal for the ECU Larry. :?

SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:38 pm

larry mcgrath wrote:Synth I'm sure by now your up to your but in aligators with the rewire job,a quick question how are you going to pick up a speed sensor signal for the ECU Larry. :?
Good question. I was told by a Reputable Toyota Tech that I could get away with out it. It will cause a check engine light which I already will have due to lack of EGR.

Am I wrong?? Having the speedo cable and tach wired should suffice for the dash working properly right?
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by larry mcgrath » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:30 pm

Have you ever look at Club4ag.com losof great info some one found a adapter from a taxi cab meter that adeptes into your speedo cable 4ag claimes you need spd sensor to get ecu to work in closed loop. Need oil press light, temp gague ,a sence wire from starter to ecu? I just started my swap yester day a 4age 20v black top from a 1998 Levine ,will be lntsetering ,striped it to replace the front seal and timing belt water pump hopfully i can transfer all the p/s alt, aircon brackets will line up. Im pulling the engine from my grey car tomorrow sow i should have it out.i guess I'll find out tomorrow what did you do about your exhaust? bought a fuel pump tank bracket for 162.00 from the dealer in town 200.00 on e-bay what did the header that you gave to petros fit the stainless steel one.did you eliminate your charcole cahester? :D :D :D :D Larry:

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Petros
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Petros » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:13 pm

The header was for a rwd Corolla GTS, it needs to be extensively altered to make it clear the starter and steering gear, and lengthened so it goes under the firewall/floor since in the Corolla the engine sits lower. I figured starting with a cheap header would be less costly than making a new one from scratch. The other option is to use the stock cast iron exhaust manifold and make a custom head pipe, I have one of those too.

Would adapting an MR2 instrument cluster to the Tercel solve the speed sensor input issue? I have one and was planning on installing it when I do the engine swap. Or how about switching to a 4afe ECU, that does not have the TEVIS so should not require speed input perhaps?
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:12 pm

I've sen a few starlets w/ EFI 4AGEs. It can be done some how to work in an old dash. Heck, I've seen it in a good number of other old cars too. Let me know what gets figured out. Any help is appreciated. Very Stoked others are helping with this!

I'm spending most of my time right now on the General and getting MR2s running; Had to pull the project out of the garage and now everything is buried in snow.

And yep, kept the charcoal canister. Gas fumes need to vent somewhere. Especially if you live in a place with often barometric pressure change or elevations.
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by larry mcgrath » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:55 pm

engine out mauked up alt p/s,alt need 1" spacer un der alt bracket maby shim under homnic bal SQ Engineering s-86.com water -thermostat conversion going to do COP and aplate. Gotta strip engine compartment so I capaint it. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

SynthDesign
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Posts: 801
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:42 pm
My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
Contact:

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:25 pm

Props to Larry McGrath for the 1st attempted US 20v Tercel swap!
Vintage and Classic Toyota; Have you loved your Toyota today?
2016 Toyota Tacoma Quad Cab LB TRD OffRoad
85 Toyota Tercel SR5 4wd (The General)
85 Toyota Tercel GTS 4wd (4AGE Swap)
85 Toyota MR2 (Blu)
86 Toyota Tercel 4WD DLX for sale (BluBoy)
86 Toyota Tercel SR5 Canadian Import (Galena)
83 Mazda RX-7 Mariah Widebody
Wait I have more

larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by larry mcgrath » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:56 pm

Anyway pulled allthe stuff out of the engine compartment . put a 1'' piece of flat as a shim under alt a/c pump (to clear front timing cover ,puled oil pan and scrayper needs to be cut and welded . scored a trany @crossmeber 150.00$ might need it :D :D :D

larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by larry mcgrath » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:07 pm

my computer is playing games so im goinging to post in short bursts,this is going fairly well the weather has been in mid 30striped car in driveway bought sheet of 1/2 '' plywood to mock up wireing harnes (ive taken a ton of pix that ill post when my conputer comes back from the hospital.

larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by larry mcgrath » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:25 pm

having kinda a problem finding parts ,this engine wasnt exported to north america ,Anyway wireing harness has a ben a pain theirs rubber gromet that seales it where it goes through fire wall clamped harness down with coper tubing clamps to keep it in place tomock it back to engine.works real well.

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Petros
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Petros » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:36 pm

I took a close look at a 20v engine once and it was not clear if it has the same bolt pattern to mate with the transmission. This was a later engine design so there is no reason to think it should bolt to the Tercel transmission, have you check the fit? Does this engine use the same short block as the earlier 4age? Will the engine mounts at the cross member fit the way they are supposed to?

I had once thought having the only 20valve, turbocharged, fuel injected Tercel in the country would be fun, but than I considered all of the costs and problems and figured it was not worth that much work. It is work enough for the regular old 4age.

Besides, it occurred to me that much more power would likely only cause me to get too many speeding tickets (especially since it appears the police are trying to make up for lost tax revenue by issuing more traffic tickets), and/or I would trash my trans and drive train without major costly up-grades. So it would add considerably to the cost of doing the conversion.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

4wdchico
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My tercel:: 1985 tercel 4wd
Location: Chico, Norcal

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by 4wdchico » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:25 pm

Petros wrote:I took a close look at a 20v engine once and it was not clear if it has the same bolt pattern to mate with the transmission. This was a later engine design so there is no reason to think it should bolt to the Tercel transmission, have you check the fit? Does this engine use the same short block as the earlier 4age? Will the engine mounts at the cross member fit the way they are supposed to?

I had once thought having the only 20valve, turbocharged, fuel injected Tercel in the country would be fun, but than I considered all of the costs and problems and figured it was not worth that much work. It is work enough for the regular old 4age.

Besides, it occurred to me that much more power would likely only cause me to get too many speeding tickets (especially since it appears the police are trying to make up for lost tax revenue by issuing more traffic tickets), and/or I would trash my trans and drive train without major costly up-grades. So it would add considerably to the cost of doing the conversion.
The 20v 4ag will bolt up to any bell housing that was mated to any other A series engine. It is not the same block, there is more ribbing for stiffness and there are oil squirters to cool the pistons. But the differences do not cause interchangeability issues.

Many 20v 4ag's have been stuffed into the ae86 chassis and bolted up to both the GTS and he SR5 (4ac) bell housings attached to the stock T50 tranny.

larry mcgrath
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My tercel:: 83 tercel v20 B/T (The ROCKET)98 toyota t100
Location: Wilds of Montana

Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by larry mcgrath » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:53 pm

Petros one of the best info on this is on whickapedia (type in toyoda 4age or toyota engines,i think) a great way to figure this out. This black top 20 valve is the engine that Cosworth raced F1 with,has all the trick stuff in it already ,realy nice intake ports, 3intake 2exhaust valves,realy nicely blended and smooth ports ,some of the nicest stock stuff ive seen. Back to the swap mocked the crossmember to engine cut oil pan for a little clearence,a little welding and some fabing hopefully get this stabed in for a trial fit tomorrow :D :D :D Spent a little time at the j-yard found a throtle cable (1988 corolla) that looks it should be long enough to work. All in all this is going fairly well. :D :D so far. Some rough measuring looks like I'll need to drop the crossmember 1" with some flat stock,for hood clearence (Thanks Synth ) also got a fuel filter bracket that i'm going to need Larry: :D :D

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