4AGE swap into 85 4WD

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SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign »

Clutch is one the way again. Hopefully see it Monday of next week.

Started what I thought was a little list of need parts.. which has grown to a 2 page data sheet.
short block.JPG
short block 2.JPG
short block 4.JPG
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ARCHINSTL
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by ARCHINSTL »

Tercel Porn...
Tom M.
T4WD augury?
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shogun
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by shogun »

nice work im looking forward to see the mating of the engine with the transmission, maybe i can be cohersed in finding a decent 4age, the ones near me are so far from stock not worth even considering for a street car
tercel 4wd custom suspension, under drive pulley, vented brakes, cold air intake, and plenty more to come
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by gatemaster »

Nice looking engine. It looks like it is just begging to be turbocharged.
An engines potential to produce power is based
mostly on it's cylinder head design.
SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign »

Things are coming along.. Wish I was home more to be working on it.

So yep, a nice little bit of Tecel Porn to show you guys I'm movin forward with the project.
long block 1 ft.JPG
long block 1 side.JPG
Ran into a bit a of a snag where they put the warranty seal for the head.
warranty seal on.JPG
Nothing a chisel couldn't fix.
warranty seal off.JPG

Clutch and pressure plate are supposed to be here Monday afternoon. I've now been waiting almost 4 months since the initial order because of lost packages and belated credits.

As for Turbo'n this engine, not a chance. We ran into an issue with the head and a hair line crack. After welding and resurfacing the head, The compression ratio went up a bit. Estimated for the year of engine around 10.1 to 1 now upped to 11.9 to 1. At an almost 12 to 1 ratio, it's a bit high for a turbo. My Target HP is around 120 with 100ftlbs of torque around 4,200. The clutch is rated to 138ftlbs. If I start slipping it, I'd have to go to a stage four 3 puck unit which I find figgity and and way too grabby. I personally believe doubling the stock HP would be amazing! If the trans can't handle it I could tune it down. The Aussies tell me the a good trans can take 200 HP and last a while.

While in the airport, I spoke with a cat who work as a fabricator. He recommend stitch welding the front unibody. Since everything is out, I'm very temped to. Petros also mentioned it. I just worried about wasted time when it gets stuffed and it's all for not. My pipe and gussets are in for the cage so I may have them fit and bend it using The General, my 85 daily driver, since I haven't gotten the interior out yet and the general has no interior as of yet. So in afterthought, the safest way to add 300lbs to a Tercel 4WD wagon is a rollcage :) So far it's spec'd for 6 point double halo rollcage with harness bars. Bare minium for racing. I've been temped to add a 2nd nascar style door bar on each side and a halo cross for extra safety. Later maybe. The guy who's making it for me races hornets and figure 8 so he know quite a bit about safety and what the SCCA requires.

Exhaust is another thought. Need to figure that all out. I think 2.25 is about right. Maybe 2" like The General. I found a sweet burns muffler but still need to figure out a cat or whether I need one or not. Petros.. your thoughts? Shogun? ARCHINSTL? Also anyone every play with a wind band O2 sensor? I was recommended a 2ndary one for tuning by the dyno guys.

Also manage to snag an engine crossmember and manual rack out of an Al21 Tercel 2wd 4 door. It’s in pretty good condition. And the rack feels tight. Petros, if you hit Arlington Pick and Pull, we forgot the hoist chain on the engine and a ¼ ratchet under the dash. No big loss. Big gain in the direction of getting the silver tercel chassis ready. Also snagged an aw11 Brake booster, master and strut tower bar which I’m gonna chop and weld to fit the T4WD chassis.
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shogun
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by shogun »

you have to do emissions? if you do have a catco 2.5" cat with 2.25", i use that size and the car pulls good, i assure you even better with a better head, burns are good mufflers if found cheap, if not my choice are supersprint or borla i like quiet.

As for stich welding...... DO IT it did me a lot of good specially the area near the firewall on the bottom part od the strut towers which is where i found the best results

youre going to be playing with a stock ecu? im toying with the idea of going honda obd1 whith mine because it is cheap
tercel 4wd custom suspension, under drive pulley, vented brakes, cold air intake, and plenty more to come
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Petros
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Petros »

They just got a first gen MR2 at the Arlington yard? Oh well, you got the parts off of it I would have wanted. If I get there in the near future I will look for your chain and ratchet.

Here is the deal with the cat; you are not required to meet emissions, or even have inspections on cars over 25 years old in this state. However, it is a violation of federal law to remove or tamper with a catalytic converter (with some pretty hefty fines), but as a practical matter I do not know of any way that would get enforced (like the FBI is going to pull over old cars and issues "fix it" citations). So you can take your chances and go without, I have been debating back and fourth either way on my conversion project. I could use the money on more important things, but OTOH the aftermarket cats are not very costly.

I would highly recommend the stitch welding around the strut towers and suspension pick-up points, I am going to to it on mine when I get it apart, perhaps this summer.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
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SynthDesign
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign »

Clutch is in!
IMG_0006.JPG
Looks nice
IMG_0007.JPG
Engine needs the valve covers painted, oil pan and alternator bracket but it's about there. Time to get back to the wiring
IMG_0008.JPG
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PrescottAZ
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by PrescottAZ »

Fabing the header will be fun with the stearing components in the way. I definately ended up compromising on my f head motor. There just isn't a good line. Maybe the G head puts things in a better place I don't know. looks nice though.
SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign »

So yeah,... the header's most likely gonna be a head scratcher. Biggest problem is the nice stainless header I gave Petros isn't available now. I've looked a bit and have kinda settled on the pace setter unit. It's steel, which means I can weld it and fudge it myself. Plus it does look like a quality unit
PAC701173 pace ae86 header.jpg
The OBX unit looks a lot more bulky.

As for how it goes. after much research, I'm pretty sure the manual rack on the tercel is about the same as an early corolla. I'm hoping the only problem I have is with the drop of the exhaust main pipe where it originally hit the fire wall.

I've got the manual rack engine crossmember seam-welded and AE86/AW11 prothane bushings on the way. I've been draggin ass on painting the valve covers, stupid rain, and really just need to start the wiring process and get the oil return bung welded in the oil pan.

I've found a set of front 89 corolla trd springs on HR and am thinking those with the AW11 bearing plates should be a nice stiff drop up front but only by an inch or so. Still need to drop the rear and fix swaybar mounts

The fuel line is gonna take a week or two once I know what I need. I think I've got the pump worked out.
ae86partsGTS tank.jpg
I pulled all the original emissions wiring through to the passenger foot well and slim'd down the harness in the engine bay. Washer bottle/pumps have been moved to the passenger front foot well. A quick way to pull 4lbs of overhung corner weight and the floor plate for the passenger side offered the room.

Petros, Hit me up when you get back in town. If you show me what and where to weld, I'd be up for doing it before I get the engine installed.
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SynthDesign
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My tercel:: The General, 85 SR5 w/ Sunroof,Olive Drab paint, Black Interior, custom steel bumpers, Barto BC lift, 1.67L BUILT 3AC w/ Weber Carb. 346,000 miles and counting since restoration
Location: Seattle WA
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by SynthDesign »

Front suspension is all off. Control Arm bushings are shot, hubs are shot. Looks like a $100 plus trip to Toyota this week.
IMG_0007 (2).JPG
Slim emissions removed harness looks good

Got the engine cross-member seam welded and painted with Poly bushings installed and a refreshed rack.
http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... f=7&t=6611
IMG_0009 (2).JPG
I need to decide on strut inserts and springs soon as well as if I'm stitch weld the engine bay. Found a nice set of EBC ceramic pads lying around to mate up with a spare set of AW11 MR2 calipers for up front. I'm going to need to make a few sets of spacers. Another post her soon.
Stainless lines.. soon too http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtop ... rake+lines

Valve covers got painted. Kinda playing around but it looks cool. Krinkle black.
IMG_0016.JPG
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ewsoares
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by ewsoares »

Has this thread died? I just read the whole thread tonight after stumbling upon it looking thru google if one could swap in a higher horsepower motor :)
I have no particular reason except that I like to tinker and desire a bit more power and could take on a project like this. One interesting idea I had as far as clearing the hood of the intake is...
Couldnt a machine shop shave your intake manifold head mating surface like they would a head? But rather at a slight angle taking off only enough to allow the manifold to bolt back onto the head a few degrees lower than stock? "A few degrees angled down?" As far as strength goes I dont feel it would be enough material lost to weaken it as well as most engines tend to have a brace going from block to intake manifold anyway.
I know I am new to this forum but it was just an interesting thought as I was reading this. I am betting one could shave the gasket mating surface of the valve covers as well to get a wee bit more clearance there if needed? Could the weber be shaved down to help clear for that also? would it cause a drop in performance?
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Petros
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Petros »

ewsoares,

Welcome to the list. There would be no strength issues shaving the manifold like you suggest, I have considered it for my swap. The problem is you would also have to machine the same angle on the bolt/nut faces, and re-drill all the stud holes. Not likely worth it. It might be possible to just cut the manifold at the runners, cut out about an inch of height, and than reweld it.

A less risky approach would be to adapt the 4 throttle bodies from the later small port 4age engine, you need to buy (or make) an adapter plate. It looks hot as well, but either way would add a lot of cost to the swap. I might go this way for mine if I can get the parts I need cheap enough.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
ewsoares
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by ewsoares »

I see that now about the machining, I was thinking at worst if angle was too much you would have to get the manifold holes angle drilled for a complete match? So is this swap not done yet? It is interesting how long it is taking but that is what makes a project fun. Honestly wouldnt be fun if it was done overnight. I unfortunately live in an apartment for the next nine months before I can undertake any project, sucks. I paid $400 US for my tercel and it has 188000 miles on it, not bad. I saw it on craigslist for $1000 and and offered $400. I had an 84 SR5 as my first car, learned to drive a stick in it and learned how expensive it was to replace a clutch before I knew how to do it myself. Had it three months and got T-Boned and it was totaled, but I feel it protected me very well. I found a site online that sells reman engines for it for abour $1400 and was considering that route thinking a new engine might be enough for power?
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Petros
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Re: 4AGE swap into 85 4WD

Post by Petros »

You will not likely get more power with a reman. $1400 is about what my whole engine swap will cost me including the custom parts, I would not pay that much for a reman, you can do a good quality performance rebuild yourself for about $800.

On my first TErcel, it has 180k miles on it, and one of the pistons failed. I rebuilt it and thought the new rings and valves, etc would improve power. Not even noticable. So I did it again much more agressively, max overbore, ported the head, lightened the flywheel, flat top pistons, performance regrind cam: and now it is just adaquat for pulling out into traffic. So I am going the 4age route.

Lots of messing around with detailed parts, and I have little extra time for projects like this (I am self employed and support a family). But I will get it done eventualy. I have been helping Synth when I can and will learn from what he is doing. He is also making more changes to his car than I would, but that is Synth.

Did you go read up on doing the MR2 brake upgrade? That is worth it (I have "extra" MR2 booster and master if you want it).
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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