L. LaPointe

[takza]

As per this article:

<a href='http://www.lubedev.com/articles/mileage.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.lubedev.com/articles/mileage.htm</a>

on this page:

<a href='http://www.lubedev.com/articles/' target='_blank'>http://www.lubedev.com/articles/</a>


I suspect that he does. IMO there is a lot of bullpucky on the internet...a lot of people repeating what others say...a lot of theorizing and what ifs....and a lot of consensus building...that doesn't necessarily lead to the truth. And many people trying to sell you something.


Several of the things that he mentions to improve MPG are some of the few things that I've found thru realworld testing to actually work:

* larger tires and higher tire pressures...+10-15% MPG

> as tested with current Tercel 4WD...tires were 175/80/13 @ 32 PSI...part of the gain was due to the inexpensive tire construction..basically bias ply with belts.

* fuel that has less surface tension and more readily evaporates....+10% MPG

> as tested with current Tercel 4WD...heated fuel.

* synthetic oils in the engine/trans/diff and certain additives in same....+10% MPG

> as tested with a '83 280ZX...involved adding moly and teflon additives to engine-manual trans-diff.


These various methods to improve MPG were tested by myself at different times on different cars and found mostly on my own....and won't necessarily add up to a 35% MPG gain with any one car.

Also...gains in MPG don't necessarily go hand in hand with power gains...though they don't really negate one another either....at some points you MIGHT have to choose between increased MPG and increased power. Cold air intakes might be an example.

He also mentions the use of advanced timing for greater power and the lower power from use of water/alchohol...both things I've found to be true.... independently.

With all this in mind...I'd like this TOPIC to be a discussion of how to implement these ideas with the Tercel 4WD.


<span style='color:blue'>High Mileage Tips....</span>


Use the right spark plugs: I'm going with NKG at next plug change.

Use the right lubricating oil in the engine: I'm going to combine 10W30 synth oil with 15W40 dino diesel oil next change...and also will consider filter changes each 3500 miles/oil changes each 7000 miles. When I consider the times when I have to lug this engine under full throttle...some heavier oil seems to be in order.

Forum on lubrication:...pro & con.....

<a href='http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php' target='_blank'>http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php</a>

Use larger diameter tires than the original tires: Going to consider moving to tires approx 5% greater in diameter than original...but probably 60 or 70 series. Intention would be to run these at a high pressure on the highway for good MPG...then the lower pressure offroad for good traction.

A 5% greater tire diameter = a 5% reduction in usable torque. So if, when offroad, a tire with a 5% over OEM diameter could be reduced to OEM diameter...usable torque would be the same as OEM tires.

Use the very best oil in your automatic transmission: Don't have one in the Tercel...do in my other car where I use Mobil 1 synth ATF with Lubegard addtive.

Use the best trans/differential oil: Have combined 75W90 synth with 85W140 dino oil + Hyperlube additive...should reduce 4wd shaft leak and cushion gears more...good thing for a trans with 220 K miles.

Add good additives to your gasoline...take a mileage check for each and every tank of gas: Checking MPG for each tank currently. Testing gas additives currently.

Keep your gasoline receipts and car repair records: I keep car part receipts.

Be consistent where you buy gasoline: I buy the cheapest gas I can find...can sometimes save around 10%.

<span style='color:blue'>Looks like there MIGHT be a difference of 5 MPG between some gasolines on average...or maybe a 20% difference if you have a 25 MPG avg.......currently this might amount to around a 35 cent difference per gallon....so IF you could find say Amoco/BP fuels in 85-87 octane at the same price as the lower quality gases..you SHOULD gain an advantage?

Not so sure about the 30% gain from using Texaco gas...the above info sure seems to be near that range...but I can't test Texaco anyway.</span>

<span style='color:blue'>CONSENSUS: Rotate thru SHELL...CHEVRON...EXXON...BP/AMOCO </span>

Here is some GAS INFO, RAW, and gleaned from the net:

Your best brands are IMO Exxon, Shell and BP. The reason I say this is that these companies are much more stringent (more stringent than the govt requires) on the quality of the gas - i.e. corrosion testing, particulates, sulphur compounds, etc. Also, they offer additive packages that include detergents that are particularly useful in older engines.

Your off-brands sometimes have "good gas" and sometimes do not. They do not have the same quality requirements (internally - they still pass govt regs but do not impose as strict internal requirements). They buy what is on the market at the best price. Probably the reason you saw the BP truck go across the street is that they had a surplus and sold it to Racetrack. So at that point in time, you knew it was good gas. However, they have many suppliers (may include the good brands and bad brands) so the quality of the gas can vary a great deal from week to week.

Even big gas companies buy gas from other sources but they still require that it meet their internal requirements. I always buy Shell (and now Exxon if I need to) because I know what type of gas we produce and I feel pretty confident about the quality (I see the certificates of analysis when we send gas down the pipeline and when we load tankers).

Your smaller oil companies do not have the same requirements on sulphur as the big companies (they were excluded from the govt requirement to produce low sulphur gas).

There are other brands that make good gas but the 3 I listed are your big players that I know produce quality product. I do not like Texaco (except when I know that they just bought Shell gas) based on knowledge of the refinery down the road from me.

- you can own an exxon station and you will use gas that is certified by exxon (that gas may originate from bp but it must pass exxon's requirements)

- you can own an off brand station and you may have a variety of gas's at varying qualities, from week to week. if it comes from exxon, great. it very well may not.

the difference is the internal requirements at the major companies - they are more stringent.

also, the government has less strict sulphur requirements on gas from smaller refineries/companies. if your off-brand store uses gas from such sites, you are likely putting higher sulphur product in your tank.

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Based on many years of record keeping now, I have seen that I get around 1-2% better fuel mileage on Amoco/BP fuels in all my vehicles. Unfortunately, it also pings like mad in my F150, but not in my Jeep. I also get about 1.5% better fuel economy than average on Holiday with no pinging. I also get above 1% better on Shell gasolines in this market.

My worst performers have been with Sinclair, Mobil, and Kwik Trip. Each posts numbers 2-3% worse than average.

Mixed bags are Phillips 66, Citgo, Conoco, Superamerica, and Marathon. One vehicle loves em while another hates em. Note that even Superamerica and Marathon, sole sourced from one refinery is in this category.

My conclusions are that I do notice some differences in gas that are measureable, but not all vehciles react the same.

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I can tell you with many years of record keeping over a small fleet of vehicles, and knowledge of local gasoline sources, that my vehicles DO have preferences.

I get 1-2% higher fuel mileage using Holiday and BP/Amoco gasolines from the Twin Cities market. (Both of which are single source products at different sources). I get 1 to 3% worse fuel mileage burning Kwik Trip, Mobil, Citgo and Sinclair fuels, none of which has a clearly identifable origin.

Some vehicles have different prefernces than others. One vehicle gets +3% on Superamerica gas (single source product), while another gets -2. Several brands fall into that category for me - Concoco, Phillips 66, Marathon, and Superamerica.

Also, while I get better than average fuel mileage on BP, I also get pinging in three of the vehciles I've kept track of, so that isn't optimum either.

Overall message: Keep good LONG TERM records and learn about who supplies gasoline in your market (some are simple, others are not!) and make a decision if there really is a difference or not!

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<a href='http://www.vettenet.org/octane.html' target='_blank'>http://www.vettenet.org/octane.html</a>

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A good air cleaner is essential: Change each 6 months or so to a new paper element.

Find a good reasonable mechanic: I'm REAL reasonable.....not that I'm rational...I just don't charge a lot!

Use the correct thermostat (normally 195 degrees F) so the engine temperature is efficient: Wonder if a 190 degree thermostat could be found for the Tercel? Would it help anything?

Use the best oil filters: Using a Pure One filter.

Replace your oxygen sensor regularly: Same old O2 sensor...so far.

Reset your car's computer: I do this now and then...a good idea if any changes are made to the car that might effect fuel management?

<span style='color:blue'>>> Would appreciate any considered FEEDBACK on any of these possible changes....why or why not............??</span>


Things I'm doing that are NOT on the above list:

* using a PCV jar

* might advance valve timing by 3 to 5 degrees

* Best speed for best MPG?

"In an engine rebuilding class I took several years ago the instructor stated that, for an engine with stock camshaft, best fuel efficiency occurred around 3000 rpm. I confirmed this on the cars I owned at that time -- 1986 Lebaron with 2.5 liters engine and 1986 Mustang LX (2.3 liters engine) -- this was several months of data. The corresponding vehicle speed was between 60 mph and 65 mph.

Anything lower or higher than that resulted in reduced fuel efficiency.
Burning premium fuel also increased fuel efficiency (probably due to to a reduction in inaudible knock). I haven't experimented on my current car, but I conjecture that the maximum fuel efficiency will occur someplace around 65 mph. "

<a href='http://www.ghg.net/stuart/318ti/economy.html' target='_blank'>http://www.ghg.net/stuart/318ti/economy.html</a> < 35 to 55 MPH?

[tercel4wdrules]

I vote against the lighter weight oils. My dad always used 20W-50 and he constantly got 33 MPG in the city, I wondered how many MPG it got on the highway. I never got to measuring that. I do appreciate you researching increases in MPG and I do hope that one day your dream of having enough gas to be spilling along the road. B)

[GTSSportCoupe]

I have not fully read everything above and in the article yet (haven't had time yet). But following are a couple of my observations:

I find that using synthetic oils in both engine and transmission/diff helps mileage a little bit. Slightly more power to the wheels.

Another way to improve highway mileage is to install a turbo . Turbo engines can be very efficient when driven properly. Raising the compression can help mileage too (more power), but you have to run higher octane (more expensive), or run a richer mixture which defeats the purpose.

EFI Honda engines get really good mileage because they run such a lean fuel mixture.

But the biggest thing is regular proper maintenance of all systems. (oils, air filter, fuel filter, engine in good shape w/ good compression, etc.)

I've been getting around 380kms to 34 litres in the city (lots of lights here), and around 460kms to 34 litres with 50/50 city highway driving. Have not had the opportunity to get 100% highway mileage yet. Also, I drive pretty aggressive. When accelerating from stop I usually am full throttle 3-4.5krpm. On the highway I usually run 70-80mph. (This all in my terc)

[takza]

Interpreting that into Olde English measures you are getting 31.8 MPG city/highway...which isn't bad at all.

I don't really run my car over 60 MPH and have been hitting 3K regularly as a shifting point.

Finally got a sample of mostly highway MPG...at around 85% highway and 35.4 MPG...this is with 600 lbs total weight in the car.

The thing about using teflon/moly in a car and getting a 10% gain in MPG is an honest experience...but nobody seems to beleive me.


With the LaPointe info you need to check out most of the articles for more examples and the reasoning behind what he claims:

<a href='http://www.lubedev.com/articles/' target='_blank'>http://www.lubedev.com/articles/</a>

Any changes I make will be over the next couple of years as things come due......

[warbstrd]

[QUOTE]Reset your car's computer: I do this now and then...a good idea if any changes are made to the car that might effect fuel management?[QUOTE]


how do we reset our computer?

didnt know our computer was all that sofisticated

[takza]

It probably isn't compared to FI boxes, but it can't hurt? I just remove the NEGATIVE battery cable for an hour or so.