Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

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Dumindu
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My tercel:: 1987 Toyota tercle 4wd DX Wagon 1452CC
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Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Dumindu » Thu May 21, 2020 9:16 am

My car is a Toyota Tercel 1987 DX Wagon.

Car has a 65amp battery with 6 cells.

When attempt to start, car only has the sound of the solenoid. Doesnt start.

When I charge the batter, It charges upto 13.6 V.

After attempt to crank, Battery voltage drops to 10.6V and that is kept steady. It dosnt comes back to normal value back.

When charging the battery, Only in 5 out of the 6 cells bubbles comes. One doesnt have at least any shake in the fluid.

Acid specific gravity is normal in all the cells.

I had tried to charge the battery with 2A charger for 24 hours. Result is same.

When I closely inspect inside the weak cell through the hole, one of the thick ash colour plate is broken into 2 at the middle. One part is lifted slight. It can be draw upward with forceps.

What can I do?

What happens if I remove the Ash color plate by lifting it and break into pieces?

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Petros
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Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Petros » Thu May 21, 2020 7:10 pm

sounds like you have a dead cell. you should try dipping the probe of your volt metter across each of the adjoining cells, into the liquid only (DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO TOUCH THE METAL PLATES!). each adjoining cell should give you 2.2 volts, I bet the bad one gives less than 1 v.

I do not think there is a way to fix it a damaged cell. Most people will replace the battery. there are places that rebuild batteries by removing the top, and replace damages or scaled plates. and than reassembly and replace the battery acid (liquid). But I would not attempt that myself. you might find something on youtube that tells you how to do that, good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Dumindu
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Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Dumindu » Thu May 21, 2020 9:03 pm

Thank you very much Mr.Petros for your valuable answer.

Should I check the voltage difference after attempt to crank?

Before attempt to crank (just after charged),there are 2.2V - 2.3V in-between good cells. There is 1.9V between the bad cell and the adjacent good cell.

After attempt to crank, there are 2.1V in-between good cells. There is 1.8V between the bad cell and the adjacent good cell.

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Dumindu
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Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Dumindu » Sat May 23, 2020 10:02 pm

After cut and examine the cell, it could be noticed a heavy damage to the plates.

I accidentally charged the battery with closed caps. It could be the cause for such a damage to the 1 1/2 year old battery.

Replaced the cell with new plates and repaired.

Now battery works fine.
Last edited by Dumindu on Mon May 25, 2020 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Petros
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Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Petros » Mon May 25, 2020 6:52 pm

Dumindu wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:02 pm
I accidentally charged the battery with closed caps. I could be the cause for such a damage to the 1 1/2 year old battery.
I do not think this will cause damage to the plates in the cells, they each should be vented. I have had cell go dead on otherwise good batteries several times, once on a cross country trip.

the car started fine each stop during the trip, than suddenly it cranked very slow and would not start, like it was discharged. managed to get the last 500 miles home by only getting gasoline at places where I can roll the car down hill and use the clutch to bump start the engine. when I got home I checked the battery, only showing about 10 volts. one cell was dead.

I think perhaps an internal defect causes it to internally short and damage the plates. it can work well for months or years, and than suddenly a cell goes dead. one time it happened after the battery was allowed to drain down, and had to recharge it, worked for a few days, and than boom, battery with one dead cell. likely weakened to the point of failure after the discharge.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Dumindu
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:34 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Toyota tercle 4wd DX Wagon 1452CC
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Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Dumindu » Mon May 25, 2020 8:06 pm

Mr. Petros.

PbSO4 deposited on the plates are the problem when over-discharged. In such instances, I use 2A charger or a Trickle cell charger for 24 hour charging. Slow current and pulsate current can break down Lead Sulfate. When do the charging, charging stops at a one level and no advance in the ammeter could be observed. But you need to keep connected the charger. Suddenly it starts to advance again. It implies a break down of a PbSO4 patch. Several stops can happen in advance in the ammeter. If the battery charging doesnt reach upto 75%, connect the battery to the car and crank 3-4 times and allow to drain little. Then again charge for 24 hours in a 2A or a Trickle charger. Do this several times until it reach upto the 75% charging level.

If you over-attempt to start the car with a fully drained battery, cell torsion and a permanent damage to the cell can be occurred. Since W=VI, when the voltage drops to 10V, current rises more than 100A to supply the constant energy need to rotate the flywheel. Such a large current can damage the cell.

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Petros
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Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Petros » Wed May 27, 2020 1:41 am

Dumindu,

I have heard that can be done. also, to rapidly charge and discharge, to clear the plates of oxide build up. but I have not been able made it work. when the plates get damaged, I do not think there is any way to fix it.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

User avatar
Dumindu
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Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:34 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Toyota tercle 4wd DX Wagon 1452CC
Location: Sri Lanka
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Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Dumindu » Wed May 27, 2020 2:12 am

Mr. Petros,

"Rapid charge and discharge" is the thing achieved by a trickle cell charger. In addition to that slow current also can do this as mentioned above.

When plates are damaged, it is a simple way to repair it by cut open and replace plates.

1. Cut a rectangular area on the upper surface of the battery. Should cut along the inter-cellular walls. So its easy to remove the plate rack. I use a 1 inch chisel to finely cut the plastic. Cut should be done with fine edges. Use the removed piece (with the cap) to close the cut later.

2. Remove the acid.

3. Then use a chisel or a cutting blade to cut the inter-cellular Lead connections. Dont cut right along the wall. Let about 3mm to retain for re-joining.

4. Get the plates rack out of the cell.

5. Remove the plates from the rack.

6. Get good plates from a old battery and replace.

7. Insert the rack again and re-join the inter-cellular connections by soldering iron. Then close the upper cut with the removed piece. Use a soldering iron to join the plastics. If there is a leak later, use Abro Steel Epoxy to close it. it can withstand acid.

8. Add acid and charge.

***WARNING: Dissolved Lead (Pb) causes severe health hazards including Cancer and kidney damages. Use Gloves and mask to handle.

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Petros
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Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Petros » Wed May 27, 2020 11:16 pm

Excellent!

it never occurred to me to even try it, though there used to be companies around that would rebuild batteries and sell them with a warranty. I suspect the health regulations shut those operations down, they were never very big companies. sounds like it can be done with simple hand tools. that is really good information to know, can get you out of a bind if no new battery is available.

thanks for posting it.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

User avatar
Dumindu
Top Notch Member
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:34 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Toyota tercle 4wd DX Wagon 1452CC
Location: Sri Lanka
Contact:

Re: Car battery broken plate seen through the hole

Post by Dumindu » Thu May 28, 2020 1:52 am

We used to do it with safety precautions. In Sri Lanka, a new battery costs nearly one to half a months salary.

Health risk is same when do change the acid. Old acid have ionic Lead. Should never pour them to area near to a cultivation or a water source. In most of the counties, battery service centers needs to get a special licence. When issuing a licence, they need to have a at leak 12 feet deep wells with filtering materials like charcoal.

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