Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:47 pm

i remember trying that before and having gas squirt back at me form pressurizing the tank. though i'm treating this as a whole new diagnosis.

only thing slowing me down is the battery staying charged. about to end with the pump, but your logic of starting with it is solid.

there was a split second pause before hearing air when i blew out he line from filter to tank. paused and blew again to make sure. thought i heard a puff sound of stuff coming out to on the first blow. filter does indeed look dirty upon closer inspection too.
regardless though i couldn't pull fuel from the tank or a can from the filter or after the filter. about to try pulling from the pump itself and blowing out the line from pump to filter.

see what happens. i suspect though that there may have been a clog between tank and filter, and that i may of helped move a bit of it to the filter quicker with the inline as well as possibly ruin the mechanical pump.

hopefully about to finally solve this
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:41 pm

so made it to the pump and it failed to pull. lucky for me id put the cheapo in and saved the delphi as my back up. put it in and hooked all the lines back up and nothing. got it to pull straight from the pump, so the spare pump works. hooked everything back up again and put the rest of my gas in the tank because it was so low i couldn't rule that out now. (and put it back on the ground so the tank wasn't tilted.

ran till the bowl was empty.
tried with the cap off again and nothing.
i either need more gas or a new filter or to drop the tank and make sure the line into it is clear. or i have a pinhole leak, though the hardlines still have their protective coating and look rather clean actually.
at this point not having a car is hurting my ability to have food to eat, so if you have any other ideas i'm all ears

sterling
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NWMO
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by NWMO » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:01 pm

If it ran fine with the pump pulling fuel from an auxilary tank, it sounds like the line between the pump and tank may be the culprit.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:03 pm

NWMO wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:01 pm
If it ran fine with the pump pulling fuel from an auxilary tank, it sounds like the line between the pump and tank may be the culprit.

Chris
read the posts leading up to installing the spare pump. most of page 2.
i also no longer have gas to test with. (or money, a running car, food)
and it's really windy here so i may just be getting new issues every time i tear into things
but it is what it is
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Petros
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by Petros » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:31 pm

you do not need to drop the tank to inspect inside: under the rear cargo area carpet is a small hatch held own with Philips screws, remove it. than you can access the top of the tank, usually the screws have dust built up on them, clean that off so you do not strip them, a bit of penetrating oil is helpful, remove the screws and this will remove the fuel level sender. use a flash light and inspect inside the tank, there is a simple screen filter on the fuel line inlet. The inside should be clear, no rust or loose particles, if there are, likely your newish filter is already plugged, as well as the screen on the fuel inlet in the tank. you should be able to see if inlet screen is plugged up or not. if the screen and inside the tank is clear, the problem is not inside the tank. if it is full of crud, it is big job: you need to remove the tank and clean it all out. you might be able to drain it and clean it in place, but that will not be as good as taking it to a fuel tank shop to have them boil it out.

I have seen rusty tanks cause the filter to plug up really fast. I suspect that happens if you driver around with out a fuel cap and rain water gets in. Usually, even on very old cars, the inside of the tank stays clean. one of my first cars when I was 16 was a 1949 Willis wagon, the tank was so rusty that I hand to clean out the carb after about 15 min of running, I found another tank for it in a wrecking yard for $20 and finally solved the problem.
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:22 pm

to late. i dropped it. (actually easier than finding places to put all the stuff packed inside. fairly windy to so potentially a nightmare of my things blowing away )

blew it off with an air compressor before dumping the gas out into a catch and through a screened funnel into my can.
was over 4 gal, so wasn't out of gas. (and i should definitely check the level sender since the gauge was at the E line)
was able to blow into the tank through the fuel line, so that wasn't clogged. (going to inspect the inside of it tomorrow, supposed to snow, yay)
armed with gas again and suspicious of the filter, since i only got to test the newish spare pump, i tried pulling from the can into the filter, and nothing.

final assessment:
filter is clogged. looks it to.
previous pump had failed. either from the filter or the in-line pump
some crud possibly came out the line between the filter and tank. sounded like it anyways and the filter is dirty so...
still going to go over the tank with a fine tooth comb though
and the inline definitely wasn't helping even though it was keeping the car running-ish

will know for sure tomorrow hopefully
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by Petros » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:48 pm

filter is cheap. even cheaper if you use the same year corolla filter. oddly the corolla filter is both larger, and cost less. fits almost the same, you just have to reverse the input/out put lines.

seems and obvious thing to check early on, without all the extra effort you have gone through.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:08 pm

well the end results are proof that no amount of effort has been enough so far.
new filter
new pump
new soft lines all around
lines blown out both ways (yes the entire fuel line end to end sectionally)
tank dropped and inspected. clean sock. line blown out, both ways.
everything put back together, inspected again and again to be sure.

nothing. after 3 recharges of the battery to keep trying.
i'm half starved at this point so it's fair to say my abilities of observation are not optimum.

at this point i'm very much interested in the oddball, hardly ever happens, possibilities.
at least i fixed the fuel level sender.

is the return line a potential culprit if clogged
would a pinhole leak prevent any amount of gas from making it through the lines at all?

what the heck am i missing?

p.s. i'm in an rv at a budget rental lot i've negotiated for working on the rv so i have to return the tercel to normal appearance when i'm not working on it so the owner doesn't complain to the manager about me.

all i can come up with at this point is to pressure test the lines sectionally. the line cap on the tank is indeed rusty so not ruling that out either.
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:27 pm

the mystery thickens...

filter to pump line & tank to filter line both hold air, but.... i can't seem to draw from my can at the end of the line by the tank

maybe re-rebuilding the carb again..?.?...?
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:36 pm

it did run fine for the most part when i got it. and has just run down hill to this point.

i guess i could pressure test the pump itself at different points in the line too...not sure that's going to get me anywhere though and might break a good pump.
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by rer233 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:37 pm

Not sure if you've already tried this, but years ago when I bought my "good" T4 (that had been sitting for 10 years) I had a 5 mile drive back to the shop and rigged an aux. fuel tank using a gallon antifreeze container (fit real nice between the master cyl and the distributor.) Put a 90 degree bend in a piece of 1/4" (I think) copper tubing, drilled a hole in the antifreeze bottle cap, shoved it close to the bottom of the bottle, and connected it to the fuel pump inlet hose. I also routed the fuel return hose from the fuel pump into the bottle so it wouldn't pump the new gas into the tank. Worked fine, should be good for driving 20 miles (or however far you go on a gallon.) If this works out for you, you probably have a problem with the fuel supply line from the tank.

Good luck- hope this helps!
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by Petros » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:51 am

Do not just throw parts at it, find the problem. likely an easy fix, once you figure it out.

the system is not that complicated. the pump pulls fuel from the tank, through the filter, at a vacuum, and to the carb under 2-3 PSI pressure. you can test the pump in place by running a fuel line to the pump input, and than cranking the engine to verify fuel pumps out the other end. ideally you can put a fuel pressure gauge at the output side of the fuel pump and see what pressure you get. but just seeing you have fuel squirting out should be enough so it would get fuel to the carb and it would run. the rare odd ball thing that can happen is the lever arm on the pump gets bent and will not pump when the engine cranks.

if the pump is good, see if you can get fuel from the tank up to the fuel pump. if you have a spare working pump you can connect it to the fuel line and hand pump it until you see fuel. a pin hole leak will cause it to suck air into the line and you will not get fuel to the carb. you would not necessarily see a fuel leak since it is at a vacuum on that end when running.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:07 pm

gas is not really coming out the other end of the pump even isolated, but going back down the return line instead. i guess perhaps it really does take quite a bit of effort for this pump to pull through and out about 8 feet of hose. but why is it going back down the return? leaving me without gas to keep testing?

i pressure tested the lines and they hold. haven't tested the tank cap line though as im reluctant to drop it again when i don't have the means to replace it or get new gaskets. but i couldn't pull from just before the tank anyways, so while the line cap is indeed rusty enough to warrant replacing or maybe sand blasting (don't have a sand blaster on hand and who knows what i'd find under the rust), since the problem persists with it eliminated i'm exploring other options beforehand. it is entirely possible i haven't had enough juice in the battery though.

by the time i got back to testing the pump it didn't seem to work anymore. was lent a better battery charger and got it juiced enough to finally get it to pull a wee. had it hooked up to the carb and return line but not much made it into the carb while the rest gravity drained down the return after i stopped cranking.

is there merit to suspecting the float could be set to far causing the psi needed to get past the needle just slightly higher than that for the return line?

no i am not throwing parts at it. i have no money for parts. the pump was a spare. but i threw away the other one (my bad, dug through the trash for it and couldn't find it). only thing i've bought for it was the 5$ filter. and i have a lot of hose to work with, but i replaced them like half a year ago.
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by NWMO » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:01 am

S/T,

Rig a pop bottle to connect to the carb fuel intake line. A lot of times, the top of a gear oil container will screw on to a pop bottle well enough to give you something to connect your hose to and not leak too bad. Get a hose on the fuel pump discharge side and have it pumping into another bottle or gas can. Once you have the first pop bottle held/hung to provide a little gravity flow, start your car. Get out and look at the fuel supply from the pump (much easier with a clear container), it should be kicking right along, noticeably filling whatever container your catching it in. If you don't have adequate flow from the pump, then you have to figure out why. Let us know what you find.

Chris
Psalm 37:4 "Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart"

In remembrance of my friend ARCHINSTL:

T4WD augury?
"Oh, do not ask, 'What is it?' Let us go and make our visit."
T.S. Eliot - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"

"Now and then we had a hope that, if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates."
Mark Twain

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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:26 pm

well i got her running, and i'm feeling pretty silly right now because it seems i haven't been getting my battery charged enough to be able to crank the engine enough to pull gas through the whole line before having to wait for my trickle charger to charge the battery again. having the use of a high amp charger really helped more than i ever thought it could. priming the fuel line also helped a ton. not seeing the fuel line in my improvised can (empty glass bottle of sailor jerrys. yes i rinsed it first with a bit of gas to avoid introducing sugars to the engine) drop on the first couple long cranks was also throwing me off.

now i'm questioning all my assumed results of my testing. as well as why it was dying to begin with which motivated me to install an in-line pump to get me back to civilization.

i'm thinking to rebuild the carb for reasons that already existed. the float level is dangerously low now, it has been weeping from somewhere's as is evident by caramel stains and a wet look to a good portion of it that is all newish from when i rebuilt it when i got it over a year ago now. and when i rebuilt it originally, even though i followed Roberts rebuild videos, i didn't fully understand what i was doing and why and had skipped a few "optional" things that may be important sources of air leaks. i think i'll be able to do a better and more thorough job this time. (and someone bought me the kit making it possible).

symptoms i was experiencing before include rough idle, lack of power (struggling at 15-25mph to get up hills if my speed was already low & 5-15mph if starting from a full stop), and very much rough tedious accelerating conditions (not enough gas and it wouldn't really accelerate, to much and bogging would occur. worse on second warm starts and after filling the tank.) and all kinds of flooding (perhaps the bogging?)
it was basically impossible to get her moving without the engine bogging and dying when i installed the in-line pump. i was also in the middle of nowhere and just happened to have the in-line on hand. i know not the best solution, but getting to resources was a huge motivating factor.

thank you all for the time and patience with my bumbling learning curve. know that you are indeed making a better mechanic out of me.

sterling
Last edited by SinusoidalTendencies on Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't always learn my lesson.
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