Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:55 pm

so is it rare to need to rebuild the brake cylinders? i've no frame of reference for what to much drag would feel like unfortunately
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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:04 pm

p.s. recently acquired a winnebago lesharo that immediately blew its headgasket. and as much as i've thought this forum wasn't as organised or complete as the volvo forums i used to work on the 850's i started learning on before getting this tercel4wd, it is leaps and bounds beyond what is available for the 4cylinder renault 2.2 gas engine.

sooo...thank you everybody. you all really do a great job
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Petros
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by Petros » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:49 pm

rear wheel cylinders do need to be replaced almost as often as the rear brake shoes, usually it is much easier to just swap out out a new wheel cylinder for the old one, rather than rebuild it. the kit is like $9 if you can find one, and wheel cylinders are like $14 each, so you save perhaps $20 at most to rebuild it yourself. And sometimes you can mess up a DIY rebuild, and you have to do it again anyway.

the seals in the front calipers typically last much longer, up to 200k miles in normal conditions (corrosion of the piston is usually the cause of failure of the front calipers).
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:48 pm

i'm talking about the front brake cylinders. replaced the back ones about 8 months ago.
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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:08 pm

the brakes have been feeling a wee extra squishy lately. another reason i feel they need some attention.

currently though i'm focusing on my carb again as its starting to act up. rebuilt it myself little over a year ago after i got er.
but the accelerator pump just dribbles when i checked the other day. was shooting a stream after the rebuild so somethings up.
and fuel delivery is still causing me trouble. as if the tank is under vacuum making it hard to pull consistently with the 4psi mechanical pump, and with the addition of an in line electric pump before the filter. it really likes to act up after shes already warm from a drive somewhere and been off for a short period like vapor lock. i've replaced all the rubber fuel lines(main, return, evap), new filter, new pump, tanks amazingly clean. wanting to learn more about the evap system as it's somewhat of a mystery to me at the moment.
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Petros
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by Petros » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:08 pm

you need to just test the brakes properly: pump the pedal up several pumps and hold it down hard. if the pedal slowly bleeds down to the floor, you need a new/rebuilt master cyl. if it holds, but the pedal goes back down after you let off of it for 30 seconds, that could be air in the lines, the whole system should be bled fully from the furthest rear wheel, and work forward. if there is not air in the system, than look for leaky rear cylinders, or front calipers.

BTW, there are no front wheel cylinders (and have not been in cars since about 1963), it has calipers. those typically hold up well for many years, but they can get leaky, it is just much less common than the rears. if you need front calipers, they can be rebuilt, but it is probably better to just purchase rebuilt ones instead. if the pistons are rusty or pitted, rebuilding may not work, it is difficult to get the new seals to seat properly. if you do try, make sure you go see how it is done on a Youtube video, all calipers are similar enough that any type of import car caliper rebuild should tell you want you need to know.

if you are going to replace the front calipers anyway, you might as well install the larger front calipers and rotors, it is a bolt up conversion and well worth the slightly higher extra cost. go look at my front brake upgrade thread over in the repair guide section. you replace the front calipers with either corolla or MR2 front calipers, and you will need the longer flex houses as well, plus use the VW golf rotors (or you can use the 3rd generation Tercel rotors with a spacer). it gives you a 18 mm thick vented front rotor instead of the 11 mm unvented one.

as far as your fuel system, adding an extra fuel pump is not a good idea, best to find the actual problem and fix it. if you over pressure the carb it will flood. if you have fuel starvation problems you may have a leak in the fuel ine up stream of the pump, allowing it to suck air into it. you may not see a fuel leak since it is on the vacuum side of the pump. if the pump is weak, replace it. check your fuel filter is good, both the filter and fuel pump are cheap. however, if the sight glass in the carb shows the fuel is at the correct level, it is not likely fuel starving. if it does not squirt a full stream of fuel with the float bowl at proper fuel level, than the problem is not the fuel pump.

You need to stop what you are doing and properly diagnose the system BEFOR you try and fix it. Throwing parts at it as random will be a waste of time and money, and likley will not fix it unless you get luck. systemacly go thorough the trouble shooting guide for the fuel system in the service manual, and do all of the checks. it does not take very long, and it will likely narrow down your efforts to looking at only the parts that are suspect. Do that for your brake as well.

We are happy to help, but we need exact descriptions of the symptoms. Telling us it is "acting up" does not tell us much about exactly what it is doing, or how it is behaving.

Good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:18 pm

I hear ya. it's a pretty long list of symptoms. going through all the trouble shooting has been almost impossible as up until now i couldn't even go much longer than an hour or two without needing her running. more of a living situation issue than anything.

so... hesitation, poor acceleration, poor gas mileage, stalls, bogs, floods, rare backfire

the float level was indeed high today. i removed the in line electric pump. she ran for a couple minutes before dying. this happens sometimes so i started her up again with a wee bit of difficulty and got it almost into its parking space across the yard before death. had to push it.
float level non existent now. plenty of fuel in the filter (which no longer has the fluctuating vacuum bubble it did with the in line pump).

yes i believe the tank is under vacuum. when i installed the in line pump it's condition was the same.
empty bowl, full filter. and would run with a line to filter from a cup of fuel, but not from tank.
tank line hard to suck from, but fine disconnected at tank.
return line was the same...ish being smaller make it a bit harder to blow through.
and i don't remember for certain what the results where for the evap line or the canister.
but i did bypass the valve at the canister for some reason.

the tank is spotless inside and appeared fine when i dropped it to check the pick up line.
all the lines where replaced at that time.
in fact the wiper lines are the only ones i haven't replaced.


i'm thinking i should tackle this before the carb since running is necessary to complete diagnostics.
and i'm basically starting from scratch with the assumption that i've missed something.

Appreciate your help & patience
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:36 pm

going to do my best to trouble shoot the fuel & evap lines again. been super windy here lately though and i don't have a garage to work in.
curious if the evap canister could be causing vacuum i the tank by not venting correctly, though not sure why a venting gas cap wouldn't handle that on it's own.

to spice things up the rad fan is running constantly. i think this happened before and if i remember correctly is its fault mode when the temp sensor doesn't return a signal. but no idea how this happened just removing the in line pump & it's circuit patch.

any help is appreciated as always. and if it is the evap canister info on that would be the ticket.

sterling
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But when i do, it's the hard way.

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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:43 pm

oh... and i was mistakenly referring to the calipers piston as a cylinder. my bad.
i have been wanting to do the simple-ish brake upgrade since these ones get ridiculously hot to the point that even my lugs are to hot to touch and are lacking in stopping power. just waiting to find the right donor in a yard or have the cash to just buy them when i don't need it for other issues.
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Petros
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by Petros » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:34 pm

sounds like you do have a fuel delivery problem. will it still starve for fuel if you run it with the gas cap off? that would be a simple test. might be the charcoal canister is not venting properly, I think there is an easy test for it in the service manual. if you replaced the fuel lines you might check that none are pinched or flattened.

sounds like your engine is running rich by the symptoms. which would not be surprising running a extra fuel pump that may over pressure the needle valve in the float bowl. you will have to sort out these problems one at a time, it is almost impossible to sort out a multiple problems at once. start with the problems you know are present, and fix those first, than move to the next one.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:45 pm

want to reiterate how much i appreciate your patience ... and quick response time. amazing compared to other forums really.
this really has been a headache working backwards having started with the carb when i bought her, and having no idea what was robbing the little bit of power it should have. trying to figure out why i couldn't get accurate enough readings to tune it, then having side issues with the dizzy and starter.

quite the insanity while having to somehow keep her rolling to avoid being towed or incidentally stranded in the middle of nowhere (how the in-line ended up in there as it was with me and the only option at the time).

i'm going to try the cap test, inspect the lines if i can get ahold of a second jack (mr "i need help changing a tire" apparently lost it), blow out the evap canister and report back.

have a beautiful day, sterling
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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:14 pm

aaand my battery died. no hissss when i unscrewed the cap though. i'm guessing with the cap removed i'm eliminating the evap and return lines as culprits...yes?
going to inspect the canister anyways while the battery charges on the trickle.
definitely need another jack to inspect the lines under the car
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Petros
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by Petros » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:20 am

if you can drive it without the gas cap, that would eliminate or confirm the fuel tank is or is not venting properly. if it still dies out, than the problem is in the fuel lines or filter. if it does not, than the problem is the charcoal canister is not venting the tank properly.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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SinusoidalTendencies
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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by SinusoidalTendencies » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:05 pm

to make things more interesting, while the battery was charging i decided to replace the flimsy quick lock positive battery terminal that had been used to replace the old standard terminal with one i'd purchased for it a wee ago only to discover it was a smaller negative terminal. and of course i'd destroyed the flimsy quick lock one to get the wires out before i figured it out. yay.

anyways. now that that's figured out i've given the engine some good cranks and nothin. bowl is bone dry. just a dangling float staring back at me through the sight glass. have the trickle charger hooked up so i can keep trying. cleaned out the cc while i was waiting as well. and thinking the cc would just keep it from running properly if its for letting air out when the tank is pressurized. (thanks for the info on that)
so if the fuel remaining in the filter hasn't managed to move to the bowl with a few good long cranks i'm guessing it's time to inspect the fuel line itself.

i'f i've understood you correctly my remaining options for culprits are.....

the pump itself (which is new and did work last i checked)
the filter (also new & has been passing fuel)
or the fuel line itself (which all the rubber has been replaced on)
[i'm not ruling out an air leak in the line, but thinking if it was before it the fuel in the filter would have moved. but not if after the filter]

at this point i guess i can assume i either didn't install the new lines correctly (perhaps pinched, not secured, or i got something stuck in them)
the hard lines are clogged or pinched from an off-road incident
the filter clogged but doesn't appear dirty
there's an air leak after the filter
the pump failed or isn't contacting the cam lobe anymore (lets hope it's not the last option).

so to proceed: inspect lines
disconnect fuel line at tank & to filter. blow out towards tank. (try and check for air flow at tank end somehow, if none replace hard lines) reconnect
attempt start again
if fails to start: disconnect line at pump & from filter. blow out toward filter till air passes through or replace (hard line too) reconnect
attempt start again
if fails: run fuel line to filter from gas can.
attempt start again
if fail: run line from pump to gas can and attempt start again
at this point if it fails inspect/replace pump, and if it starts inspect/replace filter.

maybe not in that order exactly. does this sound like a sane troubleshooting method? am i missing anything?

sterling
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But when i do, it's the hard way.

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Re: Axle play at Front differential & bearing whine #%&*

Post by Petros » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:07 pm

looks like a good plan. but I would start with the fuel line to the fuel pump from a gas can. if it runs, than work back from there to the connecting to the fuel filter, that way you can isolate it to either the filter, the line between the filter and pump, or the fuel pump itself.

it is possible one of the metal lines has a pin hole leak, they can get a rust spot that is so small it will not leak much fuel when off, but suck air into the line when running. but first check the rubber lines, more common for those to go bad/cracked.

You should be able to blow with your mouth pressure into the fuel line (before the pump) so it blows out into the gas tank. you can feel air bubbles blowing into the tank. if it is pinched or blocked you will not be able to blow air from the engine compartment into the tank up the fuel line.

Go from easiest to test and fix, to more difficult.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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