4th gear shifting issue

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Benrad
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4th gear shifting issue

Post by Benrad » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:26 am

Good day.

Sometimes when shifting into 4th (worse when cold and or downshifting) it grinds when releasing the clutch like not all way into gear and then pushes shifter into neutral. I now catch it when releasing the clutch and push the clutch back in and either retry or move to different gear. When I pull the shifter hard into fourth and wobble around seems to be less chances of grinding. It never pops out if it makes it into fourth happy it stays in there good .

Do you think could be synchros or shift linkage or??
Am I doing wear damage when it grinds?
Should I replace fluid? Recently purchased tercel but it's already winter here at high elevation Colorado and don't feel like laying in the snow in below freezing temps. Was hoping to next year after build shop to work on cars more.

Thanks.

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dlb
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by dlb » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:05 am

At the very least, you should check the trans fluid level. So into the snow with you, lol.

Yes, any time there is grinding, it indicates something is wrong there and every time it grinds it will get worse. It must be avoided.

It's likely either the synchros or the gear itself but I would still try going with synthetic gear oil first. Everyone here has a different opinion on synthetic vs traditional gear oil, check out the thread on it to make a decision on it for yourself but that's my advice.

Good luck.

Benrad
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by Benrad » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:43 am

Where is the indicator for the fluid. I am guessing some sort of site glass which I am sure is covered in oil.

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NWMO
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by NWMO » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:55 am

Benrad,

The FSM is found in the General Section under the General Stickies Library of Links. In the top left corner of MA-16 you will find a helpful picture of the fill and plug locations. Of course, under the car it isn't quite so easy/clean, but this shows you where they can be found. If you service and fill, read the portion about backing the one bolt out 7-8 turns allowing oil into another sump during filling.

https://tercel4wd.com/fsm/1985T4WD.pdf

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dlb
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by dlb » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:12 am

Benrad wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:43 am
Where is the indicator for the fluid. I am guessing some sort of site glass which I am sure is covered in oil.
To check the gear oil, you have to park the car on level ground and undo the 24 mm bolt just rear of the driver side CV axle. The bolt head is very shallow to be extremely careful not to strip it when you undo it. The gear oil should be level with the bottom of that hole, so if some doesn't pour out of the hole to start with, you should be able to feel it with your finger just inside the hole. If you can't feel oil, it's low and that's bad.

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rer233
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by rer233 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:59 am

I've found that if you use a 24mm (15/16") six point socket, you have a lot less chance of rounding out the fill plug head. Craftsman makes 'em.
if it aint there, there's a good chance it won't break!
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Benrad
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by Benrad » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:16 am

Oil is low. No sign of fluid once I removed the 24 mm fill plug. What to do?

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LowBuckCanuck
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by LowBuckCanuck » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:16 am

Benrad wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:16 am
Oil is low. No sign of fluid once I removed the 24 mm fill plug. What to do?
Drain what fluid is left in the transmission and replace it.

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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by xirdneh » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:42 am

when you drain the oil be sure to loosen the 19mm bolt on bottom of tranny 8 full turns.
that allows tranny to fully drain
how much oil comes out could be important.
should be at least 1 gallon
if less than a quart the tranny may be damaged beyond repair
no matter what comes out i am pretty sure you will be pulling the tranny to inspect and/or fix it
putting new oil in it is worth a try

late model trannys have a bolt instead of a roll pin holding the shift fork to the shift shaft
if your lucky the bolt could be loose and an easy fix
it happens and causes difficult shifting in 3rd and 4th gear
if loose the bolt eventually falls out
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.

Benrad
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by Benrad » Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:30 am

Thanks

Drained oil and around 1.5 quarts came out. Probably try to fill and see how it runs. I assume damage has happened. Even if shifts ok assume I have a leak.

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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by xirdneh » Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:47 pm

clean up tranny below both front axles and at back end where rear driveline plugs in
drive for 30 miles or so then check to find the leaking seal and replace just that seal
it can also leak at the 4WD linkage hook-up but it is usually a slow leak
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.

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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by Petros » Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:38 pm

you might try doing an ATF flush on the trans. ATF (automatic Trans fluid) is highly detergent and about 5 weight oil, mix it half and half with cheap gear oil and drive your car for a few days, be gentle on the trans, but get it up to hwy speeds so it is good and warm. than when warm, drain it all out. Than refill fully with high quality gear lub. I like to use 50/50 conventional gear oil and synthetic gear lube (all synthetic is too slippery and all the syncros will not work properly). The ATF flush will clean out sludge, build up and metal deposits, almost always improves shifting performance of the syncros.

I have almost 400k miles on my 5 speed manual trans, first and second syncro are worn. I find that it performs well with two quarts of quality gear oil, one quart of synthetic gear lube, and one quart of ATF. that way the gear are protected, but the AFT improves syncro performance.
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by The Professor » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:21 am

Petros wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:38 pm
(all synthetic is too slippery and all the syncros will not work properly).
This statement is just plain false. I'm running a full-synthetic Redline MT-90 GL-4 gear oil in my transmission and it is NOT "too slippery." It certainly shifts better than when I had replaced the original fluid with generic, off-the-shelf conventional gear oil.

Abletobecain also runs the MT-90 fluid as well and seems happy with it, so I don't know why folks still lean on that "too slippery" crutch. I even outlined my experience with the MT-90 fluid in the "Unhappy with 80W-90 Gear Oil" thread.

O.P. do some research on gear oil before you go shopping.
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Benrad
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by Benrad » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:49 am

I think I will fill with gear oil mixed with some atf and see if it functions properly. If so I will drain and fill with gear oil. Then look for leaks. Do I just fill in fill hole with 19mm backed out? How much fluid? Is there a write up on procedure?

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dlb
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Re: 4th gear shifting issue

Post by dlb » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:01 pm

Benrad wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:49 am
Do I just fill in fill hole with 19mm backed out? How much fluid? Is there a write up on procedure?
Yes, follow the procedure from the factory service manual. You can download it here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8103

I can't remember what page it's on but you should find it pretty easy. You pretty much have it correct already though: back out the 19 mm bolt 7-8 turns, fill with 4.1 liters or whatever it is (double check that, don't take my word for it), screw the 19 mm and the 24 mm plug back in. It's a bit of a bitch to access the fill hole but if you have a long flexible tube you can run it down from the engine bay to the hole and fill it that way.

Good luck.

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