Gas In Oil

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Mark
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My tercel:: 1984 Automatic, 1981 sedan
Location: Victoria, B.C.

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by Mark »

I honestly don't remember if it was 7 or .7 volts. If it was coming from the computer, I guess the voltage could be amplified to be whatever it wanted and 7v wouldn't be unreasonable.
rocketscience
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My tercel:: 1983 4WD SR5
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by rocketscience »

I'm checking all the emissions stuff 'while I'm in there' and have an oddball question about vac switches A&B. Being an 83 my car has the fuel cut solenoids reversed. I found this post viewtopic.php?t=3844#p28548 that mentioned the A&B switches might need to be reversed if this is the case? Does anybody have any additional experience with this? I found my green connector B switch to have a vac leak so I'm going to check one at the junkyard today. The 3 switches in frame are swapped from another car and I don't remember if they were in the same spot, all the vac lines were plugged when I got the car. The A switch was causing some cycling at idle this spring so I plugged the vac line to it as others have mentioned but now I'm wondering if it was from misrouting the hoses or possibly from the leaky B switch.
xirdneh
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My tercel:: 87 tercel 4x4 wagon w/reringed engine, 83 tercel 4x4 wagon w/salvaged engine and 4.1 Diff's
Location: seabeck, washington, USA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by xirdneh »

1. on one of my 83's the green plugged vac sw is connected to the "L" port system on TVSV that's the odd man out port
2. on my other 83 the brown plugged vac sw is connected to the "L" port system on TVSV that's the odd man out port
3. and 87 the green plugged vac sw is connected to the "L" port system on TVSV that's the odd man out port

according to the 83 FSM the 2nd one is wrong but car runs fine. i think i will switch them and see what happens

the other connection ties into the vac line that is on driver side of carb aft
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
xirdneh
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My tercel:: 87 tercel 4x4 wagon w/reringed engine, 83 tercel 4x4 wagon w/salvaged engine and 4.1 Diff's
Location: seabeck, washington, USA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by xirdneh »

i edited the previous reply
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
rocketscience
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:46 pm
My tercel:: 1983 4WD SR5
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by rocketscience »

The junkyard car today had the green plugged switch connected to the "L" port, I don't know what year it was. It operated just like mine, they both leak slightly but mostly hold vacuum, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell if I wasn't using a gauged vacuum pump. Maybe they're all like that? I have another back in WA I'll test when I get home next month.

My car had the brown plugged switch connected to "L" and was doing the idle cycling so I'm going to switch the lines.
gnarnold
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My tercel:: 1983 SR5 4x4 with a tummy tuck and a nose job and now a pace maker!
Location: jordache ,ca

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by gnarnold »

Have you taken the cap off the ecbv unit and cleaned the filter(s) and checked for air flow ?
Last edited by gnarnold on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|
gnarnold
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My tercel:: 1983 SR5 4x4 with a tummy tuck and a nose job and now a pace maker!
Location: jordache ,ca

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by gnarnold »

]I had the same problem.once i tapped on the switches with a screwdriver handle and it helped .another time I just unplugged tbe green one for a while until started cycling agsin, then i plugged it back in and not a problem since
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|
rocketscience
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My tercel:: 1983 4WD SR5
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by rocketscience »

I haven't taken the cap off the ebcv but I did put 12v on it and it seemed to flow pretty well, its resistance is right around where it should be.
rocketscience
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My tercel:: 1983 4WD SR5
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by rocketscience »

Going back to my original question about gas in the oil, I took off my fuel pump last night and I couldn't find any evidence of it leaking. I smelled inside it and it smelled more like straight oil than the oil in the crankcase did. I pumped it by hand and no gas leaked from where it connects to the block. I also did the FSM test of blocking off the three ports and it did lock the arm with no discernible leakage. There WAS a very small amount of oil in the heat shield but I thought this could have seeped from the gasket? I'm tempted to change it just because everybody says it's the most likely place for gas to get into the oil but it's pretty new, put in this winter and is a Japanese made Kyosan pump that seems to be of a lot higher quality than my unmarked back up pump: less play, better pumping action etc. I'm very tempted to put it back on.

So again, could a rich condition and possibly weak spark at slow speeds (been driving the forest service roads a lot) over some period of time add up to gas seeping past the ring or valve guides? It doesn't seem like it's been very much as I've had to add a small amount of oil over the last 500 or so miles, but the oil and under the valve cover unmistakably smelled of gas.



To rehash some stuff, the needle and seat seem to be sealing when pressurized but I'm at least going to polish them both and blast them out again if not replace em. I wish I'd have paid more attention to the site glass recently, its usually dead on in the middle. I think the power valve was leaking at idle which might have been a contributor as well as manifold vac leaks especially under the carb and at the brake booster hose connection which I think became intermittently leaky when I changed the motor mounts two weeks ago, right after which my intermittent rough idle started. Petros you were right on in your first response to my original post. The weak spark may be a chicken or the egg situation where the plugs are getting carbon fouled at idle/slow speeds which then accelerates the condition, and for all I know much of the smoke at idle could have been hot partially gas diluted oil seeping into the combustion chamber. It also coked up the o2 sensor pretty good which I'm sure doesn't help. Does any of this make sense? Thanks to everybody for all your help and suggestions!!! I've been pretty much stranded at a friends house about 30 mins from Kalispell, MT for over a week now while I wait for parts and slowly figure this out, I really don't want to wear out the engine but am very ready to get back to picking morels.
rocketscience
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My tercel:: 1983 4WD SR5
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by rocketscience »

Aw crap, something I totally forgot about: a couple weeks ago I started the car in the morning and noticed a gas smell and some smoke under the hood, popped it and found a leak from the hose at the carb with gas running out, it was scary! I killed it, tightened the hose clamp down hard with a socket and let most of it evaporate. The leak was fixed, I checked it several times during the next few days while running. I bet that with the worn out gaskets under the carb insulator and heat shield it could have gotten in the intake manifold, and I have no idea how long it could have been dribbling gas in that area, not enough for me to notice. I know I had those clamps pretty tight but they must not have been tight enough, or it loosened somehow.
rocketscience
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Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:46 pm
My tercel:: 1983 4WD SR5
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by rocketscience »

I cleaned up my o2 sensor and tested it, I cleared off most of the soot and then blew/dug it out of the holes with a seal pick. Then I stuck the positive lead of my multimeter into the connector wedged against the blade and held the sensor body with channel locks with the negative lead wedged between the body and jaw. I heated it up all around with a propane torch and watched the voltage on my meter with it set to 2000mV. The torch burned off most of the rest of the carbon and as it did and the sensor got hotter it would go up to 900 and then drop to around 0 when I removed it from heat, faster as it got cleaner and hotter. My understanding is that it should do this pretty quick which mine did so I think its fine.
rocketscience
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Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:46 pm
My tercel:: 1983 4WD SR5
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by rocketscience »

Finally got it running better! After going through and testing and fixing everything I thought might be contributing to it running like crap, I changed the oil, put in new plugs and a used jyard distributor. It idled okay, no smoke and much smoother than it has since I've owned it but was cycling some and the timing was bouncing around a couple degrees probably due to the sizeable play in the used dizzy shaft so I put the rebuilt one back on which seemed to idle about the same but with steadier timing. I drove the 25 minutes into Kalispell and it drove fine, a little low on power unless I floored it which I thought was probably due to me experimentally increasing the spring tension on the power valve.

Driving around in town it started doing the same random low idle and low vacuum I've been experiencing lately (talked more about it here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13383) and was starting to get some hesitation and low power almost like fuel starvation when starting in 1st which I again thought could have been from me messing with the power valve. The fuel was around the acceptable limits in the site glass. I drove to walmart and put the used distributor back on. I drove around town for another half hour with a couple of stops and none of those symptoms returned. Power was still a little lower on the hills on the way home because I don't think the power valve kicks in until around 3 psi vacuum now but other than that it ran well with a much more steady idle.

There could be other factors at play, maybe random fuel cut solenoid dropouts or something but I have to say that at this point I have zero confidence in the rebuilt distributors, this is the second one I've had problems with this trip and it seems that the worn out used one is working a lot better, I wish I would have brought one of my salvaged ones as a backup instead. I think the plugs were just getting fouled over time so they weren't burning fuel well and compounded with other leaks and hard starting the oil got a bit loaded with fuel. I'll definitely keep an eye (and nose) on the oil but I think I mostly figured it out. Thanks again everybody that chimed in for the help!
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Petros
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My tercel:: '84 Tercel4wd w/extensive mods
Location: Arlington WA USA

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by Petros »

when the idle speed cycles that is indication of a vacuum leak, a small one. usually that goes away with higher rpm due to higher fuel air demand over powers it.

Also, check that your mechanical advance is working properly, either by jiggling the rotor back and forth (dist. cap off) and it should move about 8 or 12 degrees smoothly and return all the way back. the other way to check is with a timing light, which you need to to anyway, and from idle you reve the engine and it should advance the spark on the front pulley. if it is not advancing enough, or if spark timing is off, it can idle fine but feel down on power at higher rpms.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
gnarnold
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My tercel:: 1983 SR5 4x4 with a tummy tuck and a nose job and now a pace maker!
Location: jordache ,ca

Re: Gas In Oil

Post by gnarnold »

I dont know about your carb wires but mine are cut with male /female connectors and sometimes I mix up the two solenoid wires .another time it ran like you say and one of the wires had broken reconnected and ran better
I used to laugh at the man with a pinto :lol: , until I became a humble servicer of a tercel :|
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