New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

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spencercat
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New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by spencercat »

I have to replace the clutch (as well as the P/S axle) on an '84 T4wd. The car runs pretty well, but has a loud grinding on right turns, and the clutch slips noticeably if I stomp on the throttle at anything over 30mph. I am bringing the car back to 'stage 0' and have already done the front bushings, radiator, VCG, timing belt, hoses, replaced the tranny oil and upgraded the brakes.

I have read alot of posts and repair guides here about both jobs and am leaning toward pulling the engine rather than dropping the transaxle, in part because I have an engine hoist. I'm wondering how easy it is to pull the input shaft from the tranny if it's the engine coming up, rather than the tranny down. Also, any tips to offer?
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splatterdog
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by splatterdog »

If it has a weber, it's a no brainer. Pull the engine. I've had one out in less than 40 minutes. I might still go that way with a stock carb.

If there's synthetic oil in the trans, that's another vote for pull the engine.
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Petros
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by Petros »

I have done both, I find pulling the trans easier, even when you have to do it on the floor of the garage on your back. some have found pulling the engine eaiser, and I have done that too, but found it more troublesome. I have also pulled the engine and trans togetther and change out the clutch by separting the engine and trans on wood blocks, and installing a new clutch. that was not easier, you have to unbolt the trans from the engine anyway, and you have to haul a big, odd shaped, heavy engine/trans assembly out of the car and than reinstall it when you are done.

In all, I find pulling the trans better. Though in reality, none are "easy", all take a lot of work and some muscle power, no matter how it is done.

good luck
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
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marlinh
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by marlinh »

The input shaft is tricky to pull. I think I usually remove the fuel pump and distributor to give as much room as possible. You need to drop the rear mount and tilt the engine back as far as possible to get all the cover bolts out, then the input shaft. Then you need to jack it up and reinstall the mount to remove the engine. It is worth the effort though because it makes it so much easier to reinstall the engine.
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by xirdneh »

Pulling tranny/differential as a unit is easier if you remove input shaft
re-installing is easier too with input shaft removed.
if you have old front axles and old rear driveline that are bad you can cut off ends and use them to plug axle and driveline holes in tranny so you would not have to drain the oil.
engine/tranny tilt will only go so far until oilpan hits steering rack, but its enough to do the job
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
xirdneh
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by xirdneh »

there is no need to pull input shaft if you are pulling the engine
removing input requires tilting engine and tranny down at rear so by the time you disconnect tranny mount and driveline etc you might as well pull engine and tranny as a unit
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
xirdneh
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by xirdneh »

grinding on right turns could be left wheel bearing
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.
spencercat
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by spencercat »

Petros, splatterdog, marlinh, Xirdneh - thanks for the tips. Getting the engine ready to pull, I will see how I do without removing the input shaft. The right side grinding is really more of a metal crunching, quite pronounced. Wheel bearings check out without much play side-to-side on the lifted wheels.
spencercat
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by spencercat »

Xirdneh - I just saw your post re the bad pressure plate and thick clutch you posted years ago -

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5263

I have a bruteforce clutch kit I got from Rockauto, with a clutch disk that measures .347". Should I be worried?
spencercat
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by spencercat »

:) Got the axle in without issue, thanks to the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKOWhAKf2Qs Just had to grease the spline end a bit to get it to slide into the tranny.
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marlinh
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by marlinh »

Yes it is easy to remove the engine with input shaft still in trans, but I find installing the engine with the input shaft still in the trans sometimes a major pain to line up the splines.
spencercat
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by spencercat »

Got the engine back in and hooked up in time to enjoy a messy snowfall here in the northeast. Old clutch and pressure plate were toast. New axle makes the T4wd ride like a new car. The car is a bit harder to get into reverse, but I will see how it works out after a few hundred miles. Other gears shift fine.

I had no real stumbling blocks pulling the engine to do the clutch, but I did remove a lot of stuff I might not have to do a second time, like the radiator cross-member.
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Petros
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Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by Petros »

is your gear lube in the transmission topped up? sometimes that makes it slow to respond to shifts. also, if the new clutch is dragging a bit when it is disengaged, it will make it hard to get in reverse. verify the auto adjuster on the cable end is working properly and keeps the slack out of the clutch cable.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)
spencercat
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Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:27 pm
My tercel:: '84 SR5

Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by spencercat »

Good point, I'll check the gear lube this weekend. There is a bit of a whine from the input shaft I guess in gear as well.

Clutch grabs/shudders a bit with each gear change, a bit like some driveline slop. I'll check the adjuster and see if that resolves with more gear oil.
spencercat
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My tercel:: '84 SR5

Re: New clutch - pull engine or transmission?

Post by spencercat »

New clutch remains grabby, I mean it jolts a bit when I lift off the pedal, not very smooth. Checked the tranny oil and it was overflowing when I opened the fill plug on the driver's side, since it's fresh I suppose I'm good.

I'm working on getting the timing down right, just set it all the way one direction (10 deg BTDC), and the car isn't terribly happy. Also need to identify a squeal that occurs when I start up (which goes away after a minute). Sounds like a belt but I've got the P/S belt off. Alt seems to rotate fine. Got a leak from behind the timing belt cover too, one of the new seals I put in is leaking (maybe related?).
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