New Member. A tranny for my new Turdcel?

[TERDCEL]

I am a new owner of my first Tercel4WD, a 1983. I needed the least expensive and lightest 4WD to pull behind a motorhome. I've owned Toyotas for over 20 years. Although underpowered, it appears to be a very practical vehicle in most regards, and a good choice. I dubbed it the Terdcel because photo in the Craig's list ad. It is brown in color. And expected to be as slow as well, a turd. As it turn out, it was good running, new studded tires and good street tires on rims, weber, strong roof rack, trailer hitch, and has only 160,000. Upon seeing it in person, I found I actually liked the color, but will continue to use the name as a term of affection and for the humor. Yes, it may be a turd to some on the road stuck behind me, yet it may prove to a very good turd to own. And I paid only $600.00! However, it may need a transmission as I could hear what sounded like a noisy bearing toward the front. Could the noise be something other than a transmission noise? I've never owned a front wheel drive, or drive train such as this. Did I after all, make a good buy? Is it worth fixing?

[dlb]

welcome to the forum, terdcel.

what sort of bearing noise do you hear (grinding, whining, etc) and when do you hear it?

[TERDCEL]

Thanks for such a quick reply. It sounds like a grinding noise. Could it be a be a bearing for the front wheel drive portion? The noise did not change or go away when the clutch was depressed. I really like this car. It is slow, yet I am also getting slower. Very practical and is the same vintage as my off gridder motorhome. I'll definitely need the 4wd for where I'll be staying during the winter and its light weight means I can carry more provisions. Therefore it's value to myself is perhaps greater than market value of perhaps $1,500? It will need other work too, but it is relatively minor. The previous owner reported that it only got 19mpg. That could be the weber, retarded valve timing, or a plugged cat? Runs smooth otherwise.

[TERDCEL]

"what sort of bearing noise do you hear (grinding, whining, etc) and when do you hear it?"

I hear it when accelerating.

[dlb]

temps here have been 5-10* C for the last few months and i have been averaging 33 mpg in mine. if you're getting 19 mpg, something is definitely up. check the FAQ for a list of things to investigate.

you only hear a grinding sound when accelerating? what about when turning? i am leaning towards a wheel bearing. jack up each front wheel and spin the wheel, push and pull on it, look for play and resistance to spinning, listen for grinding or other odd sounds.

i would also check the oil level in the trans. if it's low, it's possible the trans is damaged.

[TERDCEL]

I was told that is was a rear wheel bearing noise, yet I hear it up from and on the left side. It was consistent, and did not change when the trans was in a different gear, but only when there was a change in road speed. I was told on the phone that it had bad rear wheel bearings, yet what I heard was up front and to the left. The owner was not a mechanic and since it had been two years, a long time since it had been driven, I could see how someone had forgotten that it that they were told it was front wheel bearings instead of rear. Many thanks. I believe you might have nailed. I would have not figured that as I have little experience with front wheel drive problems. If it is such, then that would be an easy and inexpensive repair. Will check the trans fluid just in case. He said he had changed the trans and rear diff to a synthetic oil, Royal Purple (that would have en 2 years ago), so there is reason to believe that it is only a front wheel bearing. He explained that he gave it to his kid who drove it only 2,000 miles and then left for the Air Force. Nice guy and probably honest. BTW, would Royal Purple be a good oil for the trans? Will read the FAQ's on the bad MPG...

[dlb]

not sure on the royal purple. you have to check each trans gear oil to make sure that anything that goes into this trans meets API GL-5 and hypoid gear conditions. but if it has been in there for this long and the trans has not eaten itself, it should be fine.

i find front wheel bearings a little harder to diagnose because it's tough to get your head down by each wheel while driving. the rear is easy because i get my wife to drive the car while i put the rear seats down and lay in the back, putting my head to either side to listen for growling. i've diagnosed a few bad rear wheel bearings with that technique.

[TERDCEL]

It makes sense that it is more likely a wheel bearing. And now I know to check. The synthetic gear oil has less than 2,000mi on it. Just to be safe I'll put the correct GL-5 hypoid oil back in. I once had a Toyota 4WD pickup that I put Royal Purple in the trans and it did a bit of damage. I knew it wasn't right by the noise, so I put the GL-4 type oil the book calls for, and all the problems went away. Trans is still good after all these years. After all the reading about how hard it is to rebuild these transmissions, I'm not going to take a chance. Much thanks for all your help. I'm excited to get to work on this one. Been reading up about how to fix the lousy MPG. I believe I'm gonna really like this practical rig. 30mpg, 4WD, and space to haul stuff, and it weighs only 2,200lbs. This means much better MPG for the motorhome as well. It is a hard to beat.

[TERDCEL]

BTW, I've watch all the You Tube video on Tercel4wd wagon repairs by Robert Walker. Excellent vids.

[dlb]

yes, rob is 'xirdneh' here. he's done some fantastic instructional vids.

[xirdneh]

front wheel bearing usually will make more noise when turning
left side noise should increase when turning right and visa versa
when going straight the noise is usually constant growl

front axles usually get louder while accelerating and turning at the same time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxuhRWjzcGM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKOWhAKf2Qs

i would start looking at this stuff before messing with the tranny
when you change the oil on tranny you may want to go 1/4 synth and 3/4 gear oil 85-90wt
some have had trouble shifting with full load of synth

[TERDCEL]

Hello xirdneh (Mr. Walker),
Thank you for those videos. It's not easy to find good instructors that can pass along the inside game and specialized tools (improvised implements). After reading your description of the usual symptoms, it certainly does look like it is a wheel bearing. I will go to the next step in the diagnostics and drive into tight corners, and then put it into the air and do a physical inspection. After seeing your tranny rebuild series, I doubt I'm up to that, but I've put aside some of the concerned about the trans...yet anyway... Trans shifts nicely, smooooth. My experience with Royal Purple in a 1985 W56 trans was not good. When dumping it, there was excess metal, not present in the previous and original gear oil that had 10's of thousands of miles in it. Not surprising after hearing and feeeeling the trans for several thousand miles. From my limited research on the net, apparently Royal Purple does not have the necessary 'cushioning properties', or does not cling to the gear surfaces. Something like that anyway. There are sythetics that are designed for the early gear boxes. If I remember correctly, Redline sells that oil. Unfortunately I don't have the money to experiment or a spare trans for the Tercel. Perhaps as you suggest, a little dab will do it with 3/4's 85-90wt. It is safer choice. Thanks again!

[xirdneh]

my own experience tells me
ones inclination is to think the worst when diagnosing a car
the simpler explanation's are more likely
i have to remind myself of that often

[dlb]

we had a big discussion on here a while ago about traditional vs synthetic gear oil, lots of interesting experiences and opinions on the topic. here's that thread.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9667

[Petros]

welcome to the forum!

You made a great deal on that car, even if it needs some work. That is not likely the trans, but the wheel bearing or the cv axle. To double check the wheel bearing I have usually found you can feel the bearing by hand when you jack up the front and remove the wheel of the suspected bearing, and turn it by hand, push and pull it in and out. if there is play, or if it feels rough, the bearing is bad. could also be the CV axle, you can check the play on that next, put one hand on either side of the cv joint and turn in opostie directions, there again should be no noticable play or gap in the rotion of the joint. once you remove the axles is it easy to verify if there is play or grinding in the CV axle by hand (should be smooth with no rotational play in the joint), and double check the wheel bearing again by rotating it by hand feeling the bearing.

If it is a CV axle, you can replace that easy enough at home (there are threads on the topic). If it is a wheel bearing, it is much more work. Unless you have a well equiped home shop, it is often much easier to just remove the whole steering knuckle assembly and take it to a suspension shop and pay them to press out the old bearing and seals, and install the new ones.

sometimes it is difficult to tell if it is rear or front, but doing the same thing: jacking up the rear wheel and remvoe it from the axles, than turn it by hand and feel for grinding bearing. Rear axle straight forward to remove, but best to also take the axle shaft to a shop and have them press off the old bearing and retainer, and press on the new one.

good luck!