Engine Starting on 1st Try

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sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

One thing that has been bugging me for a long time now, is that my tercel
does not start on the first try.

My other tercel (also '86 non-wagon) ALWAYS started on the first try. It was
really quite amazing that it could do that with 186,000 miles, and burning
tons of oil.

So, it always takes at least one try, then on the next try, it starts up somewhat ok. Sometimes it starts really rough though. I've tried just about every different combination of stepping on the gas pedal, tapping it, before and during starting. It always takes more than one set of turning the engine over.

I've checked the compression, it's a little higher than what it should probably be,
but it's still within the spec. I've also checked the ignition system, all the plugs,
gaps, wires, distributor all seem ok.

Any ideas? I suspect that my fuel settings are off... There is probably A screw,
or a combinations of screws that need adjusting. Or something on the carb.

I'm fortunate that it even starts at all.... 2+ tries isn't too bad I guess.

'86 Tercel Wagon 4wd
175K miles
CA Smog stuff on it
GTSSportCoupe
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Post by GTSSportCoupe »

Choke maybe? The choke on my original carb only half worked and I had the exact problem you are talking about. I then put a new carb on from the wreckers and the car starts first try all the time now.

Do you have the problem only when the engine is cold, or when hot too? Or only when hot?
Current:
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
Guest
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Post by Guest »

100% of the time when cold,

33% of the time when hot.
Gasoline Fumes
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Post by Gasoline Fumes »

I'd try pumping the gas pedal a few extra times before cranking it. Also check the ignition timing.
lesabre400
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Location: Kitchener/Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post by lesabre400 »

Not sure if you're still trying to solve your starting issue or not, but I just found your thread while searching for engine starting problems (I washed mine last night).
When cold, mine starts immediately - simply amazing. When hot, it starts immediately if it's only been off for 5-10 minutes. If it's been sitting for an hour or so, I give the pedal a shot, turn the key, then give the pedal another shot while it's cranking. If I just turn the key without giving it gas, it will start after about 5-7 full seconds of cranking. However, if I spray the carb with carb cleaner (in an effort to smooth out the rough idle), it becomes a pain in the ass to start in any condition and takes a couple weeks to get back to normal. I often think of rebuilding/replacing the carb, but if I just leave it alone and live with the rough idle, it starts and runs great - if it ain't broke, don't fix it kinda thing.
Not sure if this helps, and maybe you've solved it already, but just wanted to throw in my two cents. I'm new to this site and want to make sure it sticks around, so I'm trying to contribute all my grief and knowledge - hopefully it does someone some good...
I almost look forward to winter now...
sacwac
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Post by sacwac »

It's not much of a problem now.... It won't start at all. Not after I removed most of the engine parts. I have another tercel, an '87, with 199,000 miles on it. As long as I drive it every weekend, it starts up just fine. After a week or so, it takes some pedal mashing/ key turning.

I agree on the carb cleaner! I've seen my engine run rougher, and it took about a week to get back to normal.
GTSSportCoupe
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Post by GTSSportCoupe »

lesabre400 wrote: I'm new to this site and want to make sure it sticks around, so I'm trying to contribute all my grief and knowledge - hopefully it does someone some good...
It's great to have people like you on here! Thanks for your participation!

I hate the carbs on this engine...actually, come to think of it, I hate carbs period :lol: Seriously though, I have heard a lot of people complain about the 3AC carb. As far as carbs go, I think they are a little more finicky than others Toyota has designed. I had trouble with 2 carbs on my old tercel, and fortunetly found a new low-km engine for my latest tercel in which the carb has not given me any problems yet.
Current:
91 LJ78 Landcruiser EX5
95 A32 Maxima SE
Former:
87 AW11 MR2 Smallport 4AGZE
93 Taurus SHO ATX
86 AL25 SR5 6spd 4wd
90 AE92 GTS
82 KP61 SR5
85 MX73
87 AE86 GTS 4AGZE
85 AE86 GTS
83 AL21
takza
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Post by takza »

When the car is cold, you have to set the choke by holding the gas pedal down for 4-5 seconds or so...not just pump the pedal fast.

You can try setting it and then without starting it, take the cover off and look to see if the choke is closed.

If not...carb cleaner or maybe better, some 10W oil on the choke shaft might help. Or adjust it if possible.

I've heard that when the car is hot...a defective power valve can cause hard starting.
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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DaveG1
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Post by DaveG1 »

On my first tercel, I bought a new carb from Kragen or one of the stores like it and it caught fire. The rebuilder had left the two screws in the float bowl loose and my tercel almost went up in flames. A passing ambulance was cruising by and had an extinguisher and put my car out. all the vacuum tubing for the smoggy stuff was melted and the electrical bits were ruined. still got her running after a few hours tho' So.. careful with your new carb, give all the scews a twist to make sure they won't fall out.
lesabre400
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Post by lesabre400 »

I read something a while ago that blamed poor engine performance for the 3A-C not just on the carb, but on valves that seem particularly prone to carbon buildup. Anyone have any experience with this? The buildup soaks up fuel and creates all sorts of interesting running conditions.
My 86 4wd has a tendency to 'buck' or 'surge' under mild acceleration (usually in 2nd gear before it's completely warmed up). It's annoying and to people watching, looks like I can't drive. Is it a fuel surge created by the carb? Sloppy or binding clutch/driveline (the effect is less when in 4wd)? Anyone have any ideas?
I almost look forward to winter now...
Thereminator
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Post by Thereminator »

I would: 1.Inspect the Choke,base atachment(for air~leaks)and all the carb bolts,screws and vac~lines.
2.Adjust the idle~screw(turn~clockwize till it chokes,then counter~clock till~rpm~peaks(stop).Reset rpm with throtle adjustment then repeat everything one~more~time.
3.If these steps dont work,buy a good~used carb at the j~yard and a primary rebuild~kit. :)
1984 SR5~Tercel 4wd-6.Spd<br><br>
takza
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Post by takza »

lesabre400 wrote: My 86 4wd has a tendency to 'buck' or 'surge' under mild acceleration (usually in 2nd gear before it's completely warmed up). It's annoying and to people watching, looks like I can't drive. Is it a fuel surge created by the carb? Sloppy or binding clutch/driveline (the effect is less when in 4wd)? Anyone have any ideas?
My guess is EGR. Try pulling the EGR vac hose and blocking it. Then drive it. If this solves the problem it is EGR related. Could be any number of things that control the EGR...probably vac modulator or leaking vac hoses?
Give a boy a gun-give a biatch a cell phone-and pretty soon you almost got yourself a police state.

Orwell said: War is peace! Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

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2wagons
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Location: Virignia

Post by 2wagons »

Thereminater-
In step #2 are you referring to the Idle Mixture screw? I have a rebuilt carb from FC carburetors, works well, but now it doesn't start at first crank. I was thinking- a bad auxiliary pump diaphragm?. Not to hard to test.

For vacuum leaks around the carb, I use a propane canister with a rubber hose attached to the valve and a small, straw-sized metal pipe at the end. I turn on the valve and point the straw at all of the hoses, fittings, valves, and whatnots, that run on vacuum, and listen for RPM changes. found a slow leak at the Fuel Filter valve that way! Always remember that propane is very flammable and take appropriate precautions!

The issue of carbon buildup was especially true with the Tercel 3E engines with the side draft carbs-these were very poor design-very bad, run from them. I researched some of the various methods for removing carbon from the valves without a valve job. i.e. pour something down the carb while the engine is running. There seem to be several camps- water, transmission fluid, oil, don’t use anything. I decided to use the GM Top Valve Cleaner product which is cheap, effective, and makes a lot of fun smoke. If you read the label, it contains water, solvents, and oils- a combination of several methods. The Top Valve cleaner worked very well . If anyone decides to use it, FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS! I have hydro-locked a 3-AC engine before, when water came in the carb (another story) -it was not fun, the poor engine threw a valve, alas :( .
“How did I get here, this is not my lifeâ€
Guest
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Post by Guest »

Yes,the slow~idle mix screw. :)
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