Rear brakes doesnt work

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Dumindu
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My tercel:: 1987 Toyota tercle 4wd DX Wagon 1452CC
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Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by Dumindu » Wed May 15, 2019 6:50 am

My car is a Toyota Tercel 1987 4WD 1452CC DX Wagon.

Due to poor braking performance of my car I repaired the rear drum brakes.

I cleaned the components, added new shoe hold down springs.

After repairing done, I adjusted the adjuster up to a level little restriction feels when rotating the wheel. Then I pedaled the brake and applied a piece of wood to hold the brake pedal compressed. Then I observed the wheel. In the left side wheel, resistance is same as before. No additional restriction is there.

In that particular wheel. I removed all the brake components and observed the bare cylinder piston movement with pedaling. It freely protrude out.

There is no leaking in the cylinder.

Shoes are not worn.

Wheel cant moved when the parking brake is applied.

I cant find any other fault also.

Once I have noticed that the brake adjuster threads slipping (during disassembling ). I checked it again and again. But later I couldnt observe it.

Can a thread slipping result a nil brake?

Or what can be the reason?

(Note 1: I have done the adjustment while the parking brake is released: Brake is working fine in other 3 wheels: For several years I am doing the brake repair by myself)

(Note 2 : I have done several bleedings. One was during the repair and then to compress the cylinder piston back after testing. At the latter one no air bubbles came out)
Last edited by Dumindu on Wed May 15, 2019 9:17 am, edited 4 times in total.

xirdneh
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by xirdneh » Wed May 15, 2019 8:38 am

If this was your first time doing brakes did you do one side first and use other side as a guide to make sure you put it together right? Maybe you need to bleed the system.
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.

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NWMO
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by NWMO » Wed May 15, 2019 9:12 am

xirdneh wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:38 am
If this was your first time doing brakes did you do one side first and use other side as a guide to make sure you put it together right? Maybe you need to bleed the system.
The hand brake is simply a cable setting the brake physically, has nothing to do with the wheel cylinder, etc. Did you bleed both sides well after your work and confirm no air, just fluid shooting out when bleeding?

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Petros
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by Petros » Wed May 15, 2019 5:53 pm

the rear brakes are troublesome to bleed completely. I suspect there is still air in the system somewhere. That is about the only thing that can cause it. Also, a defective wheel cylinder (bad seal) may not leak fluid but allow air to get sucked into it (I have had that happen).

Also, a bad master cylinder can also allow air into the brake lines, have you bench bled the master before you installed it?

If master is good, see if you ca find a friend to pump the pedal, using all fresh fluid, start with left rear, keep pumping and pumping out fluid until you see fresh new fluid coming out the bleeder (using a clear bleed line is a big help, run it into a container of brake fluid to prevent sucking air back into it). than move to the right rear, it should take a lot less to get it cleared of air.

Good luck.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

xirdneh
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My tercel:: 87 tercel 4x4 wagon w/reringed engine, 83 tercel 4x4 wagon w/salvaged engine and 4.1 Diff's
Location: seabeck, washington, USA

Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by xirdneh » Wed May 15, 2019 9:14 pm

I usually have no one to help me bleed brakes. So i do it myself. 1. Loosen bleed screw. 2. Push brake pedal too floor and hold it there with a stick wedged between pedal and front seat. 3. Quickly get back to the bleed screw and tighten it. 4. Remove stick. 5. Repeat 1 thru 4 at least two more times then move on to next wheel.
Love those Tercell 4x4 wagons but they sure suffer from road noise.

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Dumindu
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by Dumindu » Thu May 16, 2019 10:38 am

Thank you very much.

After following your instructions, problem resolved.

I have done several bleedings. At the first one, after pedaling for 10-15 times, around 5mm diameter air bubble emitted following few tiny bubbles. Thereafter no air bubbles emitted.

Also previous times I didnt hold the pedal compressed while tightening the bleeder screw. (Because I use a long tube to connect bleeder nipple to the reservoir. I thought air cant re-enter because tube is filled with brake oil).
This time I held the pedal compressed as you advised.

Again thank you all for your valuable advises.

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Dumindu
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by Dumindu » Sun May 19, 2019 2:56 am

Few days later again drake pedal shrinks to bottom.

Air entering in to the system could be the problem?

Hand brake is also very poor. New cables were recently replaced.

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Petros
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by Petros » Sun May 19, 2019 3:25 pm

there is a hand brake adjustment under the cover between the seats, but if it worked before that may not be the problem.

if all parts of your brake system do not have good seals, in the master, the calipers, and the rear wheel cylinders, than yes, air can get into the system. Also, carefully inspect the flex hoses, and any rusty brake lines, for seepage.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Dumindu
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by Dumindu » Sun May 19, 2019 8:09 pm

Thank you very much Mr. Petros.

Master cylinder is one year old. Drum brake cylinder was added 2 years ago. Calipers were repaired month ago. New square seal was added. Bleeding nipples were replaced month ago.Rubber hoses were replaced one year before. No leak could be found in any connections. I have tightened all the connections upto the maximum.

Among them, the most older one is the drum cylinder. I think as you told earlier, washers could have a one way leak. I will repair it.

Few years ago when it was to replace brake shoes it was difficult to find shoes for this vehicle. So a mechanic had cut and welded an available one. Since then there was a problem in rear braking power and also there was a parking brake weakness. But that weaknesses were not as much as now.

1. Can a poorly matched shoes can result parking brake problem?

2. Can air in the system exaggregate the parking brake weakness ?

3. I have heard that some types of Corolla shoes match for the Tercel. What is that Corolla type? (Toyota Lanka also says they dont have spares for this vehicle)

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Petros
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by Petros » Mon May 20, 2019 7:50 pm

3. Rear wheel drive corolla with drum brakes (most common type, GTS model had rear disks) that will fit if you have the corolla drums. they are wider, so the shoes will not work on the orginal tercel drums, but should with the wider corolla drums. that is what they sell as replacement rear drums for the Tercel since the original narrow drum is no longer available.



2. parking brake should work off mechanical leverage against shoe stop, and should work even without any hydraulic fluid in the system.

1. it can, but if done properly it should work. the issue is if the diameter is the same, and if it mounts the same way (or made to work the same). the parking brake presses on the shoes at the mounting hardware and the correct shape on the metal part of the shoe is critical for it to work. not really complicated, but it needs to match what came out. I think you can order the correct parts from rockauto.com. but shipping will be more than the cost of the parts.
'87 Tercel 4wd SR5 (current engine swap project)
'84 Tercel 4wd (daily driver, with on going mods)
'92 Mazda MPV 4wd (wife's daily driver)
'85 Tercel 4wd DLX auto(daughter's daily driver)
'01 Honda Civic (other daughter's daily driver)

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Dumindu
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Posts: 139
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:34 pm
My tercel:: 1987 Toyota tercle 4wd DX Wagon 1452CC
Location: Sri Lanka
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Re: Rear brakes doesnt work

Post by Dumindu » Mon May 20, 2019 9:04 pm

Thank you very much for your comprehensive guide.

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