Who wants to buy a custom 3ac header?

Post by **Petros** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:21 pm

I have an engine builder who is going to build me a custom exhaust header for my car. If anyone wants to buy one we can get the cost down the more we order.

It would be a one-for-one replacement for the stock exhaust manifold and head pipe up to the trans mount (it would need to be welded or clamped to the rest of the exahust system). It will come n plain metal, u-paint, and can have the EGR and intake manifold heat riser built into it if you want. It will be tuned for optimum power around 3000 rpm +/-(best economy for fwy speeds).

Custom headers are typically about $600-700, production ones are about $200-300 (4-cyl.). I think we can get the cost down to this range if we can put together 3 or 4 or more orders. I will need to have him give us a price once we get a quanity.

What do you guys think?

What would you be willing to pay?
Do you want the EGR and heat riser?
What rpm range would you like?
how many do you want?

Peter

Rasmus · Post by **Rasmus** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:19 am

I made my own for 22 dollars.

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:12 am

Petros, that sounds like quite a fair price to me. I'd love to buy one, but my wife says "NO!". Apparently I've been spending too much on car stuff recently (mainly my MR2). Personally I'd want a header that made max power closer to the 4500rpm range. This for me would be a better compromise between booting up a big highway pass, and regular rpm driving. I'll let you know if anything changes and if I decide to go for one.

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:57 am

i can get mine done for about 100 dollars, tuned length

Rasmus · Post by **Rasmus** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:02 pm

GTSSportCoupe wrote:Petros, that sounds like quite a fair price to me. I'd love to buy one, but my wife says "NO!". Apparently I've been spending too much on car stuff recently (mainly my MR2). Personally I'd want a header that made max power closer to the 4500rpm range. This for me would be a better compromise between booting up a big highway pass, and regular rpm driving. I'll let you know if anything changes and if I decide to go for one.

How is that a fair price for BENT PIPE?

- R

GTSSportCoupe · Post by **GTSSportCoupe** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:17 pm

Rasmus wrote:
How is that a fair price for BENT PIPE?

- R

How long did it take you to weld yours up? What would you charge yourself out at if you owned your own shop and were trying to make a living? Did you throw something together quick or spend a lot of time optimizing it for specific flow at a specific rpm? Sure you spent $20 bucks on material; I'm saying his price is good for a custom designed header compared to other quality aftermarket headers on the market (ie. TRD header for a AE86 or something). Especially considering the low volume he would sell it at (most of us tercel guys are cheap asses; thats why we drive tercels and not landcruisers). Don't get me wrong tho, if I had a welder and some time, I'd definitely make my own too. Heh, in fact I'd just weld a turbo flange on the damn thing and take it to the next level...

Basically, I think it's nice of the guy to offer a group buy if people are interested. It's nice to see someone making performance parts available to others. I don't think he's in this for the $$. Cheap tercel owner's are not the right crowd for that.

Post by **Petros** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:15 pm

I do not know the price, he might be willing to make them as low as $120. each, though about $200 seems fair for all the work he will be doing. I will talk to him tomorow and get a feel for the price if he does more than one. I am going to have him do mine, and the whole exhaust for me. It is an easy way to get both extra power and economy, and likly save a lot weight too. BTW, I am not making anything off of them, I am making you the offer in case anyone else might want one.

There are lots of Honda, Subaru, Mazda, owners who pay big bucks for production headers that you get no choice in tuning length.

I am sure you can buy bent pipe cheap, but add flame cut flange (in a complex shape), fitting it to our car, welding it up including attaching all the emission hook-ups, is way more than bent pipe. Maybe your time has no value, but mine does and even if I had as well equiped shop as he does I am not sure I would want to do it (I do not find THAT kind of handy work pleasnt).

Where can you get a header made for $100? A skilled custom builder willing to work for $10 an hour? Good luck with that.

I am cheap too, but looking at that manifold and exhaust pipe it is one of the best ways to add both power and economy, and still have the car street legal. But this additude is likely why no manufacturer is making a header for us. Too bad, these little cars I think are far better than anything else out there in terms of reliablity, economy and w/ 4wd. Fixing mine up the way I want it is cheaper than anything else I might get, and still have a better car (and getting something unique too).

No body here needs any wise cracks, they are not useful.

I simply want to know who would buy one, and how much are you willing to pay? I can get them if there are any takers, if not than you will miss out. I am having one made for me no matter what you guys do. So speak up now.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:18 pm

Will the 7 cents I have in my pocket suffice? Lol.

Mandrel-bent? What size primaries? 4-2-1 or 4-1 design? If 4-2-1, what size secondaries? Oxy Sensor bung included? Not really bung, more flange considering how ours mount...

I have been quoted $700 so I'm quite shocked to see this quote....

Though, mine is a bit more detailed.... Schneider cam, higher compression, bigger carb, port and polish, 3 or 5 angle valve job (factory job is 3 angles), maybe better ignition, very large RPM band.... I want up to 8k if I ask for it, though 5k would be a more daily figure.

Oh yeah... Balanced internals, high perf bearings, high volume oil pump... BEHOLD THE GRABBER GREEN TRANNY-THRASHER! lol.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:21 pm

I love these cars and all, but you gotta put some perspective on it, investing huge money into this car for more power is virtually insane. I've thought about going crazy with the car, but i'd much rather have a BMW 528i and a tercel than just a souped up tercel.

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:19 pm

Again...
SSHHHHH!!! The common sense might be listening!

lol.
I know. Its likely going to more bite me in the ass than anything.

Although... Look at it this way. I absolutely will not be able to buy a sporty car for less than 5 grand, that isn't in need of a lot of help. Keep in mind my idea of sporty. An M3 is a mild ride. Yeah. For true sporty you better have 6 digits. But thats nowhere near the point because the Terc will never be a Countach.

Lets see... I have... $80 sunk so far, for crank boiling and machining and block boiling and machining. Wait, $30 for a Holley 5200 (will either sell it and get a real 32/36 or sell it and get a set of Mikuni 48mm side-drafts because I'm an idiot and I know where to get 2 for $250 for the set)
$50 for a water pump, oil press. switch, and water temp sender.
So I'm in the hole $160, more or less. Now. From ImportPerformanceParts.net- Major Rebuild Kit Gold- Upgrade HP Bearings and HV Oil Pump. $389 sans shipping.

We're at $549.

Now. $20 for head deck. $140 to clean up my port and polish and do a valve job.

$709.

$260 for cam and valve-spring pack.

$969. I've already exceeded amount put into my car in basics.

I dunno. I know I'm forgetting some things. Oh, valves would be good.
$45.96 for a set of OEM style exhaust valves from NAPA
$31.96 for a set of OEM style int. valves from NAPA.

$77.92 for valves.

$1046.92. Thats still less than that MR2. Of course, CS says that the tranny will go along with many other things, but dangit... I'll have fun anyway. Hell, I might even throw it in a gokart for shits and giggles.

I didn't include oil cooler and gauges... Oh well.

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:55 pm

if any body has the following data i can give you the propper lengths and every thing

exhaust open btdc
exhaust close atdc
cilinder volume
rpm

any body knows how many ccs are our combustion chambers???

as near as i could get to our cam these are the meassurements

primary length 15" = P1
primary id. 1.54"
secondary length 12 " = P2
secondary id 2.0"

collector length (cl) 5.75
tail pipe id. 2.0"
tail pipe length 24.6"

this for a 421 header

Typrus · Post by **Typrus** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:51 am

I keep wanting to get a syringe to CC them. But I've already Somender's Grooved them, so my numbers would be off.

Rasmus · Post by **Rasmus** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:14 am

if I make a jig.. I can make us all some tubular headers... they won't be 'tuned' but they'll flow better than stock.

- R

Post by **Petros** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:02 pm

Hey Shogun,

Where did you get that information on header design? Is it on the web somewhere?

My combustion chamber was about 46 cc if I remeber correctly, it gave 11:1 CR in the 3ac with 1mm overbore and flat top pistons. The combustion chamber shape was altered when my ports were cleaned up, do not know what a stock head would cc at.

I was thinking that if it was tuned to 6000 rpm, where I want my peak power to occur, it should also have a harmonic at 3000 rpm. Improving the efficiency at about fwy speeds (improving the part-load fuel economy at about 3000 rpm). Does this formula predict improved power with the same length at different RMS (presumably at each of the harmonics).

Peter

shogun · Post by **shogun** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:36 am

its a software i have, but cant find the installer, you could tune it to about 4500, you tune it to less you pass that limit and no power will be had

here is an equivalent

http://www.mkracing.com.ar/archive/esca ... ength.html